Thursday, October 23, 2008

Oct 23 00:00:01 2008

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Session Time: Thu Oct 23 00:00:01 2008

[07:38] {Nemo} Is anybody out there
[07:44] {Threei} Good morning sleepless souls
[07:44] {Threei} gosh... it's 4:44 am
[07:44] {Nemo} At my age, sleep is a luxury that doesn't come easy
[07:45] {Nemo} Forgot, your on the left coast
[07:45] {Threei} ok... but to yell that loud that early? :)
[07:45] {Threei} kidding
[07:45] {Threei} lemme get that coffee
[07:45] {Nemo} I'm not a chat afficianado...don't know what I'm doing
[07:47] {Threei} it's easy... type here for conversation with evceryone, doubleclick on my nick and type in new window that pops up to talk to me privatelty
[07:48] {Nemo} you referred to yelling...I know in blogging capital letter are considered yelling. I don't have that access
[07:49] {Threei} nah, that just was my cranky morning side, lol
[07:49] {Nemo} oh...your evil twin :)
[07:49] {Threei} futs look ominous so far
[07:50] {Threei} NQ - 19, SP -17
[07:50] {Threei} and ticking
[07:50] {Nemo} when I saw low positives last night I thought it would be a bad day.
[07:51] {Nemo} Haven't heard much about Lehman CDSs settlements. I wonder how much of yesterday was liquidation around that issue
[07:52] {Threei} well, we are so dangerously close to breakdown level, lows of Oct 10 and 16, it starts acting like a magnet
[07:52] {Threei} and iof broken...
[07:52] {Threei} let me look, I posted it yesterday
[07:53] {Nemo} IMO: P/Es have to get down to the 70s lows, and how much of these CDSs have to be wrung out, meaning more liquidations
[07:56] {Nemo} POT trumped earnings but outlook cloudy, trading up 5%. Won't last long.
[07:57] {magoo} morning
[07:57] {Threei} magoo :)
[07:57] {Threei} POT is glorified manure company
[07:58] {Nemo} You ever hear the parable about when the different parts of the body were discussing who should be boss? Manure is very important
[07:58] {Threei} yes, lol
[07:59] {Threei} {Russia} Fine, be that way... who to invade next?
[07:59] {Nemo} Russia is a few cities and swamp
[08:00] {Threei} yeah, but one of those cities has a lot of bling
[08:00] {Nemo} Garden Circle. 3 miles of money
[08:00] {Threei} yup
[08:01] {Nemo} Yeah, but cross the bridge...bad day...
[08:01] {Threei} Jobless claims in 28 minutes
[08:01] {Nemo} ADP numbers?
[08:02] {Threei} last 461K, continuing 3.282M
[08:03] {Nemo} LIBOR drop slows 3.535
[08:03] {Threei} after close earnings..,. KLAC, MSFT, GNW, WEN
[08:04] {Nemo} NOV just reporting
[08:05] {Threei} wow
[08:05] {Threei} canadian way to unfreeze credit market?
[08:05] {Threei} to take risk out of it completely?
[08:05] {Nemo} Lemmings doing same thing around the world can you say moral hazard...
[08:05] {Threei} I can feel a lot of unintended consequences coming
[08:06] {Nemo} Must be that 3rd eye talking :)
[08:06] {Threei} lol
[08:07] {Threei} just imagine how wide the gates are being open to lending influenced by greed or corruption, when risk is being completely erased
[08:07] {Nemo} You mean just like before...nahhh
[08:10] {Threei} - Expectations for initial claims are 468K v prior release of 461K
[08:10] {Threei} - Continuing claims seen at 3.715M v prior 3.711M.
[08:12] {Nemo} DOW profits down, Sales down
[08:13] {Nemo} Hahah...I thought they'd play ball
[08:14] {Nemo} This will keep Chavez and Iran at bay, and help keep the price of gold down
[08:14] {Threei} as long as their cuts are reasonably within theior current surplus, they just don't matter
[08:14] {Nemo} Saudi needs $30 oil to pay their bills...more is gravy
[08:14] {magoo} vad, dcc
[08:14] {Threei} and to cut below that trying to create lack of oil, in current situation?
[08:15] {Threei} won't happen, IMO
[08:15] {Nemo} Politically dangerous
[08:16] {Nemo} Gold down again $24
[08:22] {Threei} be back in 5
[08:27] {Nemo} Yeah, but how much?
[08:29] {Threei} jobless claims in 2 min
[08:29] {Threei} in 1
[08:30] {Threei} NTITAL CLAIMS 478K V 468KE,
[08:30] {Threei} CONTINUING CLAIMS 3.72M V 3.715ME
[08:30] {Threei} - Prior Initial Jobless Claims revised from 461K to 463K
[08:30] {Threei} - Prior Continuing Claims revised from 3.71M to 3.73M
[08:31] {Threei} no immediate reaction by market
[08:32] {Nemo} DUG up oil basically unchanged on oil announcement
[08:33] {Nemo} Mmmmh will they announce on Friday, or another weekend where you can't lay bets
[08:34] {Threei} somewhat encouraging how market takes jobless claims so far
[08:35] {Nemo} Getting blase about bad news
[08:42] {Threei} {AMZN} what kind of upgrade is that
[08:43] {Nemo} The "I don't know what I'm talking about, but I'll fake my expertise" upgrade
[08:45] {Threei} you can almost feel how desperately market is trying to back off this deadly edge, lows of 10/10
[08:50] {Threei} looks like we are in for the wild ride again for these two days
[08:51] {Threei} 1T eh?
[08:52] {Nemo} Where's the IMF getting the money. The US is the IMF
[08:52] {Threei} monopoly money is being thrown around
[08:52] {Threei} any amounts are available, just ask
[08:52] {Nemo} Pesos??? I think we're down to rubles?
[08:53] {Threei} still not at mongol tougricks stage yet
[08:53] {Nemo} defensive???
[08:53] {Threei} backed by endless herds of cattle
[08:53] {Nemo} Love that kumis...
[08:53] {lisa_jay} Good Morning.
[08:54] {Threei} lisa :)
[08:55] {Nemo} lvlt loss narrows bid .35 ask .37 close.23
[08:56] {Threei} a bit too narrow for a day traading candidate
[08:57] {Nemo} would expect it to fade nicely today
[08:58] {Onix} Good morning all
[08:58] {Threei} Onix :)
[08:59] {Threei} markets are upticking
[09:00] {Threei} against another bad set of jibless numbers
[09:00] {Threei} jobless too
[09:02] {Threei} AMGN upticking
[09:02] {Threei} announced decent earnings and guidance yesterday
[09:02] {Threei} BC
[09:02] {Threei} REPORTS Q3 -$6.70 V -$0.50E (INCLUDES ITEMS), R $1.04B V $1.16BE
[09:03] {Threei} wow
[09:03] {Threei} -$6.70 V -$0.50E
[09:04] {lisa_jay} JBLU up
[09:04] {Threei} 07:16am [JBLU] Reports Q3 -$0.02 v -$0.04e, R $902M v $899.3Me
[09:05] {Threei} 5.25 is two days resistance for JBLU
[09:05] {Threei} was trying to break it yesterday when market selloff came and took it away from breakout level
[09:05] {Threei} gold is getting killed
[09:08] {Geo} gm
[09:09] {Threei} geo :)
[09:09] {dino} gm all. end of days again
[09:09] {Threei} dino :)
[09:11] {Threei} JBLU
[09:13] {Threei} OK guys, first, welcome to all gusts,
[09:13] {dino} lol. we are committed to not growing
[09:13] {Threei} move your chairs closer,
[09:13] {Nemo} I'm sensitive about trout
[09:14] {Threei} just don't touch that palm tree in the corner please, last time around too many cigarette butts in the pot damaged it
[09:14] {Threei} we have a rule about not trouting the guests
[09:14] {Threei} although we do break our rules frequently
[09:15] {Threei} second, let's form our working assumptions for the day
[09:15] {Threei} pattern lately was:
[09:15] {Threei} some selling at the opne, steady climb for a few hours, then sharp selloff closer to end of day
[09:16] {Threei} let's go with that for now, with one necessary comment:
[09:16] {Threei} we are very close to a dangerous breakdown level
[09:16] {Threei} so markets are likely tio be even more nervous
[09:17] {Threei} let's for now keep our bets to half lot unless stock is very thick and stop is fairly tight
[09:17] {Threei} alert format includes trigger for a trade, condition and stop level
[09:17] {Threei} like this:
[09:18] {Threei} Long Setup: ABCD 30.01 if stays above 29.90
[09:18] {Threei} 30.01 is a trigger,
[09:18] {Threei} breakdown of 29.90 is invalidating level if broken before triggering
[09:18] {Threei} and stop level if broken after
[09:18] {ese} good morning
[09:18] {Threei} ese :)
[09:19] {Threei} sometimes plays are more discretionary than that,
[09:19] {Threei} then alerts are somewhat fuzzy,
[09:19] {Threei} like:
[09:19] {ese} morning vad...and welcome the members to the board bomer buce nemo et al
[09:19] {ese} new members
[09:19] {Threei} ABCD is a bounce candidate, likely off 19.50 level, watch for nasdaq strength to guide entry
[09:20] {_Bruce} morning all
[09:20] {Threei} bruce :)
[09:20] {Threei} any questions so far?
[09:20] {_Case} Good morning Vad. and team.. thanks for the open house :-)... Question: How do you size "lot" in terms of your total capital per trade?
[09:20] {Threei} don't hesitate to ask if you get any
[09:20] {Threei} good morning case
[09:21] {Threei} we go with risk tolerance
[09:21] {Threei} idea isd:
[09:21] {Threei} you define how much you are willing to lose on any given trade
[09:21] {Threei} industry standard is 1-2% of your trading account
[09:21] {Threei} from here, having your stop loss on particular setup
[09:21] {Threei} you figure out lot size
[09:22] {Threei} example:
[09:22] {Threei} you are willing to lose no more than 200 on a trade,
[09:22] {Threei} stop size is 20 cents,
[09:22] {Threei} you can go with about 1000 share IF stock is thick enough so slippage is not an issue
[09:22] {Threei} when you deal with thin volatile traders, like RIMM,
[09:23] {Threei} no way you can count on no slippage
[09:23] {Threei} so you cut down your size
[09:23] {Threei} I usually iclude this evaliuation in alert
[09:23] {_Bruce} morn vadster
[09:23] {Threei} saying "half lot" or small shares"
[09:24] {ese} bruce...
[09:24] {_Bruce} howdy ese
[09:24] {Threei} for the open, considering volatility, let's keep them all to half lot
[09:24] {ese} vads a typing monster this morning......
[09:25] {Nemo} amazing with that accent
[09:25] {dptl} good morning all
[09:25] {Threei} youmean MIStyping monster?
[09:25] {Threei} dp :)
[09:25] {ese} dp!!!!!!
[09:25] {dptl} :)
[09:26] {_Case} Thanks Vad.. perfectly clear. Followup question: Are you / the regulars here sticking to 1% risk per trade, 0.5% or something higher?
[09:26] {Threei} I am generally keeping it within 1-2%
[09:27] {Threei} as for regulars... they all found and destroyed spy cameras I had installed in their offices... can't tell aymore
[09:27] {_Case} :-)
[09:27] {Nemo} once a kgb guy
[09:27] {Threei} lol
[09:28] {Threei} watching UAUA
[09:28] {ese} 1-2% for me as well
[09:29] {Threei} usually fast one at the open
[09:29] {Threei} sharp dive under 14 if happoens, will be buying opportunity
[09:29] {Threei} it often does that
[09:29] {Threei} consequent run is usually fairly impressive
[09:30] {Threei} open we are
[09:30] {Threei} market upticking
[09:30] {Threei} Long Setup: UAUA 14.20 if stays above 14
[09:30] {Threei} half lot
[09:30] {Threei} that was too fats, don't chase
[09:31] {ese} bstop CTXS 23.01
[09:31] {ese} filled
[09:31] {Threei} 40 cents in one gasp
[09:31] {ese} .5
[09:31] {Threei} 50 even
[09:31] {ese} sory .05
[09:32] {ese} out CTXS .34
[09:32] {Threei} UAUA pulling back
[09:32] {ese} +.29 ....that was a 1/2 ;ot
[09:32] {Threei} lol, that kind of redefines fast
[09:32] {ese} damn does it ever
[09:32] {Threei} if you still had your order at .20, that was the only way to get filled
[09:33] {Threei} if UAUA revisits that level again, it's not an entry anymore
[09:34] {Threei} watch JNPR for entry on pullback closer to 19
[09:34] {dino} ice sm l .25, stop .79
[09:34] {Threei} JNPR here
[09:34] {Threei} stop about 18.95
[09:37] {Threei} UAUA sharp down
[09:37] {Threei} sewe how thrid revisit of 14.20 was not an entery anymore?
[09:38] {_Case} Yes... Oil is up, does it trade in reverse?
[09:38] {Nemo} 3rd revisit breakdown
[09:38] {Threei} latelt UAUA mostly trades with market
[09:38] {Threei} JNPR no worky
[09:40] {lisa_jay} Almost got 1:1 on jnpr, quotes were bad, so too 8c loss. sigh.
[09:40] {Threei} Long Setup: FDRY .50
[09:41] {Threei} if stays above .35
[09:42] {Threei} if this one doesn't work, backing off longs longs
[09:42] {hawkfan4} AMGN .50 small, stop under .25
[09:43] {peterg} good morning all, honored guests
[09:43] {Nemo} market backing off
[09:43] {Threei} peter :)
[09:43] {hawkfan4} 1/2 out .85
[09:43] {Threei} no worky FDRY
[09:44] {ese} hawk are in AMGN?
[09:44] {Threei} market bounces are met with a lot of selling
[09:44] {Onix} stopped JNPR and FDRY
[09:44] {ese} was gonna bstop AMGN at .54.01
[09:44] {hawkfan4} stop .67 amgn
[09:45] {ese} god trading there hawk
[09:45] {ese} good!!
[09:45] {hawkfan4} thx es :)
[09:45] {ese} long AMGN
[09:45] {ese} 1/2
[09:46] {ese} .02
[09:46] {ese} out AMGN .24
[09:46] {ese} +.22
[09:46] {Threei} Short Setup: ADBE .50 breakdown if stays below .70
[09:47] {ese} hawk you still in....
[09:47] {hawkfan4} 1/4 out .20, stop .99 on last
[09:47] {hawkfan4} out
[09:47] {ese} nice
[09:47] {hawkfan4} thx, u2 es
[09:47] {dino} ice stopped -.40
[09:47] {ese} took your lead...tks for idea
[09:47] {hawkfan4} np
[09:48] {Threei} 24.45 is 52 week low for ADBE
[09:49] {Threei} invalidated for now but can become valid again if consolidates a bit closer to .50
[09:49] {lisa_jay} Very gerky movements this morning.
[09:49] {dino} sm l leco .10, stop .73
[09:49] {Threei} yup
[09:49] {Threei} about to trigger ADBE
[09:50] {Raven} beef gerky ?
[09:50] {dino} stopped, ouch, that was fast, sitting back
[09:50] {Threei} lost 52 week support
[09:51] {Threei} 1:1 ADBE, cover half
[09:51] {peterg} hmmmm
[09:51] {Threei} scalpers take full profit
[09:51] {Geo} out half .33
[09:52] {Threei} stop to above .50 for the balasnce
[09:53] {ese} by the way ....what were apples numbers anyone know?
[09:53] {Nemo} APPL forward guidance was very soft...surprise...
[09:54] {hawkfan4} 21-Oct-08 16:47 ET In Play Apple beats by $0.15, misses on revs; guides Q1 EPS below consensus, revs below consensus
[09:54] {ese} tks
[09:55] {Threei} uaua
[09:55] {dino} aapl, rimm green
[09:55] {ese} hmmmmmm$101.00 to $93.00 mild punnishment from the stree
[09:56] {Nemo} double bottom on rimm?
[09:56] {lisa_jay} JBLU
[09:57] {Threei} too far from there nemo... no chasing
[09:57] {Geo} out half adbe
[09:57] {Nemo} too old to chase
[09:57] {peterg} lucky
[09:57] {Threei} yeah, second half ADBE stopped about b/e
[09:57] {Threei} too bad, this one had potential to much bigger
[09:59] {dino} leco last try sm l .50, stop .13
[09:59] {dino} peter :)
[09:59] {hawkfan4} with ya dino .52
[09:59] {dino} ok, lets ride it
[10:00] {Threei} AUG HOUSE PRICE INDEX (M/M): -0.6% V -0.5%E
[10:00] {dino} cme rocking, watch ice
[10:00] {magoo} vad, news BIDU?
[10:00] {ese} the gods are always with you dino......should be no problem for you
[10:00] {Threei} not really
[10:00] {dino} i prefer lady luck
[10:00] {Threei} Merril lowered price target
[10:01] {magoo} to what?
[10:01] {Threei} 390
[10:01] {ese} well then.......this is a clean board
[10:01] {hawkfan4} earnings last night mags
[10:01] {dino} ice off of .00 sm l
[10:01] {Threei} hmmm?
[10:02] {dino} no trig
[10:02] {Nemo} Yeah, I promise to lock myself up if I rob a bank
[10:02] {ese} done for the day all......early morning with a couple of meeting....see you tomorow.....
[10:02] {Threei} too much reassuring goes on
[10:02] {magoo} almost geeen here
[10:02] {hawkfan4} cya es
[10:02] {ese} see ya hawk
[10:02] {Threei} take care ese
[10:02] {ese} vad
[10:03] {dino} cya es
[10:04] {peterg} GE now at half of what genius me sold it for this summer
[10:04] {dino} ok, risky, ice trig, wide careful. want a buck
[10:05] {hawkfan4} ICE ..02 small
[10:05] {dino} need rimm aapl to join party imo, otherwise trouble
[10:06] {Threei} AMGN is determined
[10:06] {dino} aapl says fine dino
[10:06] {dino} hawk, careful ice violent pullbacks
[10:07] {hawkfan4} k, thx
[10:07] {dino} next time i start so early hawk, slap me
[10:07] {dino} i'm better at 9:50
[10:07] {hawkfan4} lol, u got it :)
[10:08] {dino} ok, fear/greed on both
[10:09] {Threei} market moved away from breakdown area
[10:09] {dino} close to yesterdays low 8335, maybe????
[10:10] {Threei} RIMM is back into lows
[10:10] {magoo} [10:07] {dino} next time i start so early hawk, slap me
[10:11] {magoo} slap me
06[10:11] * hawkfan4 slaps magoo around a bit with a large trout
06[10:11] * Geo slaps magoo around a bit with a large trout
[10:11] {magoo} i meant dino
06[10:11] * Geo hurts more
[10:11] {hawkfan4} :)
[10:11] {Nemo} easy on trout boys...cousins
[10:12] {Threei} RIMM .60 break long small shares
[10:12] {Threei} if stays above .30
[10:12] {dino} hawk, theres your buck
[10:12] {dino} ice
[10:12] {Nemo} cup and handle on nov?
06[10:13] * dino slaps magoo around a bit with a large trout
[10:13] {dino} lol nemo, how's dori
[10:14] {hawkfan4} beauty dino, 1/2 out .07 +1.05
[10:14] {Threei} invalidated
[10:14] {Nemo} left me for someone with bigger fins :(
[10:14] {dino} great job
[10:14] {Geo} well technically dori knew nemo's dad
[10:14] {Geo} but i am not nitpicking
[10:15] {Threei} RIMM starts looking like breakdown
[10:15] {Threei} lol, broke while I typed
[10:15] {lisa_jay} mixed emotions, chopping up down, up down
06[10:15] * dino slaps Geo around a bit with a large trout
[10:15] {Threei} very choppy, yeah
[10:16] {Threei} nervous market
[10:16] {Threei} Greenspan on TV
[10:17] {dino} it's his fault, but they treat him like a god
[10:17] {Threei} amazing isn't it
[10:18] {_Case} Triangle consolidations forming in SPY,QQQQ? (1-min charts)
[10:18] {Threei} can't place much signifinace in it, case
[10:19] {lisa_jay} uaua and cal selling off hard...dal could be next?
[10:19] {Threei} market doesn't really go with normal patterns today
[10:19] {Threei} if loses 9, lisa
[10:20] {lisa_jay} I tried to short at .13 with stop above .15...not available to short :-(
[10:20] {Threei} available here
[10:21] {Threei} UAUA sudden;y became unavailable
[10:21] {Threei} was yesterday
[10:22] {hawkfan4} available for me
[10:22] {Threei} market slowed down - is it Greenspan effect?
[10:22] {Threei} market used to fall asleep during his testimonies
[10:22] {_Bruce} fitb
[10:23] {Threei} looking for breakdown bruce?
[10:23] {Nemo} Saudi response will be most important
[10:24] {hawkfan4} out rest ice +1.46, thx again dino
[10:24] {Threei} good one guys
[10:24] {hawkfan4} thx
[10:27] {dino} ngj hawk
[10:28] {_Bruce} possible break vad- actually thinking long bounce is higher probablility
[10:30] {_Bruce} l fitb 11 stop 6c
[10:31] {_Bruce} stopped fitb
[10:32] {Threei} market feels to be running out of gas again
[10:33] {Threei} Short Setup: ADBE .69 if stays below .85, half lot
[10:33] {Threei} invalidated
[10:33] {Threei} and markety changed its mind on a whim
[10:34] {Threei} am I hallucinating or PETS actually makes 52 week highs?
[10:35] {Threei} {UNG}
[10:38] {Chaeron} Good morning all. Sorry I'm late
[10:39] {Threei} chaeron :)
[10:39] {Threei} didn't miss much anyway
[10:39] {Geo} hey chaeron
[10:39] {Threei} listlesss market
[10:39] {Threei} Long Setup: AMGN .15 half lot
[10:39] {Threei} if stays above 55.90
[10:40] {hawkfan4} in .17
[10:40] {Threei} half out AMGN closer to .50, scalpers know what to do
[10:41] {Threei} out half
[10:41] {Threei} offer the balance above .70
[10:41] {Geo} .14 out .68
[10:41] {Threei} out in full
[10:41] {Geo} nice vad
[10:42] {Chaeron} beauty Vad
[10:42] {Threei} me? beauty?
[10:42] {Geo} just in time chaer !
[10:42] {Threei} careful chaeron...
[10:42] {Chaeron} missed it Geo
[10:42] {Geo} oh :(
[10:42] {Chaeron} I'm not THAT drunk Vad
[10:42] {hawkfan4} out full .15
[10:42] {Threei} lol
[10:42] {Threei} finally decent play
[10:42] {hawkfan4} beauty call, thx vad
[10:42] {Threei} welcome
[10:43] {dptl} out mgn +.30 and +1.00 ty
[10:43] {_Bruce} amgn ripping long
[10:43] {Threei} wow, out too soon
[10:43] {Geo} maaan
[10:43] {Geo} this one call washed out 2 stoputs
[10:43] {Geo} could have dome more
[10:43] {Threei} that's the idea, isn't it
[10:43] {Threei} keep stops tight
[10:43] {Geo} oh yeah
06[10:43] * Geo mumbles
[10:44] {dino} hawk leco on your own...
[10:44] {hawkfan4} UAUA .88 long, stop under .80
[10:44] {Threei} now, the luckiest one on this trade would be a trader who suddenly fell asleep for 5 minutes after entering
[10:44] {Threei} market got happy all of a sudden
[10:44] {magoo} huh..u wake me?
[10:45] {magoo} wow am i lucky guys
[10:45] {_Bruce} s aapl 98.25 50 c stop
[10:45] {Threei} lol magoo
[10:45] {dino} hey, is that original bruce?
[10:46] {_Bruce} you bet dino
[10:46] {Threei} gutsy short bruce
[10:46] {magoo} BRUCEEEEEEEEEE
[10:46] {Threei} don't oversit
[10:46] {dino} good to see you
[10:47] {_Bruce} out aapl +55 c
[10:47] {_Bruce} you too dino
[10:47] {Threei} beautiful one, wtg
[10:47] {_Bruce} thanx
[10:47] {_Bruce} lucky
[10:47] {Geo} wow twins
[10:47] {Geo} lol
[10:48] {dino} lucky, that a boy bruce
[10:48] {_Bruce} lol
[10:48] {_Bruce} better to be lucky and dumb
[10:48] {_Bruce} than smart and broke
[10:48] {Threei} than poor and at war?
[10:48] {_Bruce} that too
[10:49] {Threei} RIMM is still red
[10:49] {hawkfan4} stopped uaua
[10:49] {dino} okj hawk, out ice .80, +1.80
[10:49] {Threei} UAUA kind of lost it hawk
[10:49] {hawkfan4} sweet, nice dino
[10:49] {Threei} had too big of a run, needs rest
[10:49] {dino} had 2.25 but lost
[10:50] {hawkfan4} yep, tired
[10:50] {dino} like to see pullback to 68.50 area
[10:51] {hawkfan4} i'll be watching it
06[10:51] * _Bruce slaps magoo around a bit with a large trout
[10:51] {dino} thing's like pulp
[10:51] {Threei} APOL
[10:51] {Threei} too jumpy...
[10:52] {Threei} had an idea of long near 61
[10:52] {Threei} but thing teleports in seconds
[10:52] {magoo} 1 day we are going to get 600 up...just don't know when...we are riculously oversold
[10:52] {Threei} let's let APOL go, too jerky
[10:52] {Threei} we are mags
[10:53] {Threei} not to say we can't sell more
[10:53] {Threei} but rememner up days last week or two
[10:53] {magoo} not saying bull mkt...but c'mon...shorts win every day
[10:53] {Threei} those were the easiest money in a year
[10:53] {Threei} no even need to scalp, buy and hold for a few hours
[10:54] {Threei} pretty much looking forward to datys when market returns to this mode
[10:54] {Threei} days too
[10:54] {magoo} i know..and shorting here feels like suicide...but i would have produced great $$ all week'
[10:54] {Threei} actually, looking at chart right now
[10:54] {Threei} we pretty much may get it today
[10:55] {dino} fwlt sm l .00, stop lod
[10:56] {dino} yes today and a bit more tomorrow, perhaps monday too, then more death
[10:56] {Threei} very well could be
[10:57] {Threei} I won't even pretend I can foretell what this crazy market is going to do, lol
[10:57] {Threei} OK
[10:57] {Threei} Long Setup: NQ 1255
06[10:57] * Geo just acquired an 8 ball and polishing it
[10:57] {Threei} stop under 1250
[10:58] {Threei} Short Setup: QID into bounce, small shares
[10:58] {Threei} as close to 76.50 as you can get
[10:58] {Threei} yeah right QID says
[10:59] {Threei} here it is
[10:59] {Threei} if you got QID around .30-.40, stop above .60
[10:59] {Threei} cover half here
[10:59] {Threei} scalpers cover in full
[10:59] {Geo} NQ? target?
[11:00] {Threei} NQ half out into spike above .60
[11:00] {Threei} there
[11:00] {Geo} :)
[11:00] {magoo} what level will buy programs trigger?
[11:00] {Threei} QID, who held balance feel free to cover in full under 75
[11:01] {hawkfan4} 1/2 out nq +10, thx vad
[11:01] {magoo} qqqq 33.50?
[11:01] {Threei} no idea mags
[11:01] {Threei} I haven't programmed them
[11:02] {Threei} QID gave over a dollar
[11:02] {dino} fwiw gap from yesterdays' open and tues. close, dji 9033
[11:03] {Threei} NQ hit 1:2 actually... missed that whilke messing with QID
[11:03] {Geo} yeah out
[11:03] {Threei} out in full?
[11:03] {Geo} TY
[11:03] {Threei} cool
[11:03] {Threei} welcome
[11:04] {Threei} you don't say
[11:05] {Threei} btw, one comment for guests
[11:05] {Threei} when we make a call on NQ,
[11:05] {Threei} it's a general market read,
[11:05] {Threei} and if you don't play e-minis
[11:06] {Threei} you can follow the call with any of the stocks you have on watch IF that stock follows the market
[11:06] {Geo} back in black !!!
[11:06] {Geo} and then some
[11:06] {Threei} have a look at
[11:06] {Threei} RIMM
[11:06] {Threei} AAPL
[11:06] {dino} gj geo
[11:06] {Threei} ADBE'
[11:06] {Threei} DELL
[11:07] {Threei} they all did what NQ did
[11:07] {Threei} plaaying any oftehm you can follow the NQ/QID call
[11:07] {Threei} just identify entry point matching NQ trigger
[11:08] {Threei} if any questions about the concept, don't hesitate to ask
06[11:08] * Geo asks if he can have some more please
[11:08] {Threei} be back in 10 while you think about questions
[11:08] {Threei} real questions... not like one above {Grin}
[11:09] {peterg} what use for NQ?
[11:09] {Geo} for americans? biggest is taxation and lower costs and lesser reporting
[11:09] {Geo} and oh yeah leverage
[11:10] {peterg} anybody? I mean what index do you access & read for NQ, or am I missing the point?
[11:10] {magoo} qqqq
[11:10] {peterg} got thta, thks
[11:10] {magoo} i keep up minute chart all the time
[11:10] {magoo} cant trade without it
[11:11] {Geo} yup
[11:11] {dino} nihd blood
[11:11] {dino} i watch ndx
[11:12] {magoo} another good indicator of naz direction is aapl too peterg
[11:12] {lisa_jay} Magoo you have both nq and qqqq 1 min charts?
[11:12] {magoo} i use just qqqq
[11:12] {magoo} really helps
[11:13] {peterg} Lisa, you got nq?
[11:13] {lisa_jay} yes.
[11:13] {Geo} qqqq trades like NQ almost perfectly
[11:13] {lisa_jay} TOS charts.
[11:13] {peterg} tks
[11:13] {Geo} if you hav TOS watch NQ
[11:13] {peterg} TOS....?
[11:14] {lisa_jay} think or swim
[11:14] {peterg} lol
[11:14] {Geo} best platform ever for options
[11:14] {peterg} me just have laser
[11:14] {Geo} laser and IB here
[11:14] {peterg} International Bridge
[11:15] {peterg} Irritable Bowel
[11:15] {peterg} sorry
[11:15] {magoo} dino has cyber and BO
[11:15] {Geo} Interactive Brokers longterm and NQ only
[11:15] {Geo} hahahahaha
[11:15] {Threei} back
[11:15] {peterg} :)
[11:15] {magoo} smoke?
[11:15] {peterg} if so, what?
[11:15] {lisa_jay} Geo if not buys dcc?
[11:15] {Threei} lol
[11:15] {dino} out fwlt .40, +.40
[11:16] {Geo} sure
[11:16] {lisa_jay} sorry busy.
[11:16] {Threei} nice... our provincial govt cut income tax by 5% retroactive to beginning of 2008
[11:16] {Geo} wow
[11:16] {Geo} so canadians capitalist now?
[11:16] {Threei} good one dino, wtg
[11:17] {dino} i'm moving to canada. out idiots want to raise taxes in recession
[11:17] {Geo} my residency in canada expires this dec sniff
[11:17] {Threei} that was exactly what turned crash of 1929 and potential recession into depression
[11:17] {Threei} capital tax raise, isolationism
[11:18] {Chaeron} dino is Ireland a better choice?
[11:18] {dino} dk, i'm usa
[11:18] {Threei} trying to gauge if market is out of gas or just taking a breather here
[11:18] {dino} ice dropping
[11:19] {Threei} feels like small bounce and more drop for now
[11:19] {dino} right now 40% of americans pay no tax, and they want to raise it on ones paying
[11:19] {Geo} 40% really???
[11:19] {dino} y
[11:19] {Geo} man i feel overtaxed
[11:20] {dino} top 10% pay 50%
[11:20] {Threei} if materializes, watching DELL for short into bounce closer to 12.40
[11:20] {dino} to be in top 10% you only have to make $93k
[11:20] {Geo} and how much do they make?
[11:20] {Geo} 90?
[11:20] {dino} which today is not much
[11:20] {magoo} geo..i thought u were usa
[11:21] {Geo} ?
[11:21] {magoo} us citizen
[11:21] {Geo} nope
[11:21] {dino} all we do is lower the income level for "wealthy" and tax the sh#t out of them
[11:21] {Geo} Univ filed in 2003
[11:21] {Geo} still waiting behind the illegals
[11:22] {dino} class warfare in this election
[11:22] {dino} and my ranting is done for today
[11:22] {magoo} thank goddddddddd
[11:22] {Threei} lol
[11:22] {magoo} hes throwing stuff in my direction again vad
[11:22] {_Bruce} rant rant rant
[11:22] {_Bruce} fume fume fume
[11:23] {Threei} UPS
[11:23] {_Bruce} what we need to do is strat taxing these low life day traders
[11:23] {_Bruce} specially guys like mags
[11:23] {dino} we already pay highest rates
[11:23] {dino} short term gains, then amt hits
[11:24] {Threei} oh great
[11:24] {Geo} wow dino
[11:25] {Geo} i i get hit six ways to sunday.... pay SSN even if not eligible
[11:25] {Geo} consider it the price for being here myself
[11:25] {Threei} DELL didn't even try to bounce
[11:25] {Threei} too bad
[11:28] {dino} risky sm s ice .10
[11:28] {dino} stop .51
06[11:28] * laserdave1 slaps Threei around a bit with a large trout
06[11:28] * laserdave1 slaps Threei around a bit with a large trout
06[11:28] * magoo slaps Threei around a bit with a large trout
06[11:28] * Chaeron slaps laserdave1 around a bit with a large trout
06[11:28] * laserdave1 slaps Threei around a bit with a large trout
[11:28] {Threei} sigh
06[11:28] * laserdave1 slaps Chaeron around a bit with a large trout
[11:28] {Threei} relax guys
[11:28] {Threei} oh, that's actually what you are doing
[11:29] {Threei} Short Setup: ADBE 25 break if stays under 25.15
[11:30] {Geo} invalid?
[11:31] {dino} ice stopped cov -.43
[11:31] {Threei} for now, yes, but if consolidates here for a few again, and market resumes downward will be valid again
[11:31] {Geo} ok
[11:32] {dino} cedc sm l .80, stop lod
[11:33] {Nemo} just sittin' watchin' the paint dry...
[11:33] {Threei} valid again with market help
[11:37] {Threei} let's trail stop to above .10
[11:37] {Threei} just too unclear here, want to keep stop tighter
[11:38] {Threei} last bounce topped out at .05, so trailing to .10 is reasonable
[11:40] {Threei} die already ADBE
[11:40] {laserdave1} magoo dcc
06[11:40] * Threei smacks ADBE on the head with 2x4 endowed with rusty nails
[11:42] {Geo} half out .85
[11:42] {Threei} Attention: ADBE 1:1
[11:42] {Threei} half out, scalpers take profit
[11:42] {Threei} stop for the balance to just above 25
[11:42] {lisa_jay} 15c, thanks Vad.
[11:42] {Threei} welcome
[11:44] {_Dean} 2:1, Thanks Vad.
[11:44] {Threei} :)
[11:45] {Threei} 1:2
[11:45] {Threei} 1/4 out or cover in full
[11:45] {Threei} your choice
[11:45] {Threei} if keeping 1/4, stop to .91
[11:46] {Threei} ok, this I don't get:
[11:47] {dino} ice sm s .50, stop .01
[11:47] {Threei} Oct. 23 (Bloomberg) -- Hundreds of hedge funds will fail and policy makers may need to shut financial markets for a week or more as the crisis forces investors to dump assets, New York University Professor Nouriel Roubini said.
[11:47] {Threei} ``We've reached a situation of sheer panic,'' Roubini, who predicted the financial crisis in 2006, said at a conference in London today. ``There will be massive dumping of assets,'' and ``hundreds of hedge funds are going to go bust,'' he said.
[11:47] {_Dean} 1:3 last half. ty .
[11:47] {Threei} good job Dean
[11:47] {Threei} explain to me please, what those funds are going to do if markets are closed
[11:47] {_Dean} All Hail Vad!
[11:47] {Threei} how do they liquidate?
[11:48] {Threei} or he means they won't?
[11:48] {Geo} they panic and dump when markets open
[11:48] {Geo} thus even worse
[11:48] {Chaeron} hmmm "sheer panic"... we're close to a bottom
[11:48] {Nemo} Vad the Vad the impaler?
[11:48] {Threei} then what happens over this week to prevent dumping when it opens?
[11:48] {peterg} I will buy 1 million shares for .10c
[11:48] {Threei} lol nemo
[11:48] {Geo} thats what he was calle din high school
[11:48] {hawkfan4} Vad the Trouter
[11:48] {Geo} out
[11:48] {Nemo} How does one trout?
[11:49] {Nemo} I'm getting bad visuals
06[11:49] * Threei swears he never tells anyone where nicknames Enforceer and KneeCapSAhooter came from
[11:49] {Chaeron} Right click on nick you want to hit and select from drop down menu
[11:49] {Geo} 27 cents TY vad
[11:49] {Threei} welcome sir
06[11:49] * Chaeron slaps Nemo around a bit with a large trout
[11:50] {Threei} yeah... like that
[11:50] {Nemo} That's fratricide!!!
[11:50] {dino} ice stopped again,
[11:50] {peterg} nemo, thats this group for ya
[11:50] {peterg} also, can commit trout suicide
[11:51] {Threei} ``Systemic risk has become bigger and bigger,'' Roubini said at the Hedge 2008 conference. ``We're seeing the beginning of a run on a big chunk of the hedge funds,'' and ``don't be surprised if policy makers need to close down markets for a week or two in coming days,'' he said.
[11:51] {Threei} I feel like I am in some parallel universe
[11:52] {peterg} era ouy
[11:52] {Nemo} Those countries running to the IMF is just like running to the US. This is for reserve currency control
[11:52] {Threei} in the one I live in these things just don't happen
[11:54] {Threei} we all may have to move back to Kripton
[11:54] {Nemo} I'll lose my superpowers :(
[11:54] {peterg} Jor-el, where are you now?
[11:54] {Threei} should be easy transition for magoo, he is a Martian anyway
[11:55] {dino} now ice falls, sheesh
[11:55] {Threei} Imo... THOSE THAT DO DON'T TALK LIKE THAT
[11:56] {Threei} oops, sorry caps
[11:56] {Nemo} That hurt my ears
[11:57] {Geo} yeah kashkari !!!
[11:57] {Geo} spreading the wealth
[11:57] {Geo} post the nes pls vad
[11:57] {Threei} Short Setup: UAUA .50 break if stays below .65
[11:57] {Geo} news
[11:57] {Threei} what news geo?
[11:58] {Geo} 8:56
[11:58] {Geo} TTN
[11:58] {Geo} [08:57] {Geo} yeah kashkari !!!
[11:58] {Geo} [08:57] {Geo} spreading the wealth
[11:59] {Threei} oh, lol
[11:59] {Threei} you confudsed me with time stamp
[11:59] {Threei} - Will attempt to to have $250B in equity injections done by year end
[12:00] {Threei} it's 11:56 in trading world, you see
[12:01] {Geo} there is only one world
[12:01] {Geo} SoCal
[12:01] {_Muddleheaded} Vad, how to you manage $US/CDN exchange? Do you convert $US to $CDN every night?
[12:01] {_Bruce} mos looks weak - possible short - can be very volatile trader
[12:01] {Threei} no muddleheaded (what a nick, lol)
[12:01] {Geo} :)
[12:01] {Threei} money is in USD tading account
[12:02] {Threei} when I withdraw profits, I convert to CAD
[12:02] {Threei} sometimes waiting for a few days if I see chart as an opportunity to get a better rate
[12:02] {_Muddleheaded} Do you think the $CDN is oversold?
[12:03] {Threei} really no idea... was it oversold when exhcnage rate was around .60?
[12:03] {lisa_jay} uaua stil valid Vad?
[12:03] {Threei} yes lisa
[12:03] {Threei} see, CDN is pretty much petro currency,
[12:03] {Threei} commodity currency,
[12:04] {Threei} with commodities going into basement, it's no wonder CAD drops,
[12:04] {_Muddleheaded} That's for sure, thanks Vad.
[12:04] {Threei} then cycle starts:
[12:04] {Geo} booohoohoo
[12:04] {Threei} economy weaknes,
[12:04] {Geo} UAUA not available
[12:04] {Threei} BoC has to cut rates
[12:04] {Threei} which weakens CAD even more
[12:05] {Threei} and US economy is the basement which means sharp drop in non-oil related sectors in Canada
[12:05] {Threei} we see it in Ontario as we speak
[12:05] {Threei} so it's kind of triple whammy on CAD
[12:05] {Threei} UAUA 1:1
[12:05] {_Bruce} out mos + 42c
[12:05] {Threei} half out or take scalp
[12:06] {Geo} ?
[12:06] {Geo} laser didnt let me
[12:06] {Threei} no
[12:06] {Threei} but some may have it for short
[12:06] {Geo} i know
[12:06] {Geo} you in the superlicious secret group vad?
[12:06] {Threei} so I provide commentary for all, not limiting them to you only Geo... sorry
[12:07] {Chaeron} Geo thinks he's the center of the universe :)
[12:07] {peterg} he's not?
[12:07] {Geo} thats what you told me over beer chaeron !!!
[12:07] {Threei} well, I can't blame him, I think pretty much the same of myself
[12:07] {Chaeron} just wanted to make you feel good buddy :)
[12:07] {Threei} and it comes as a great surprise to me when I see people thinking otherwise
[12:07] {Geo} lol chaer
[12:08] {Geo} just wistfull about 20 cents thats all
[12:08] {Threei} amazingly enough, there are 7 billions of those
[12:08] {Threei} can you believe it?
[12:08] {_Bruce} rimm headiong to daily lows
[12:08] {Chaeron} I can't believe with as stupid as the human race is, we've reached 7B
[12:08] {Geo} hey magoo you there?
[12:08] {Threei} yeah, looking at RIMM for short at .50 break
[12:08] {Threei} would prefer some bounce first though
[12:09] {Threei} why chaeron... this I actually find easy to believe, considering how little smarts the process requiress {Grin}
[12:09] {Geo} really?
06[12:10] * Geo will go back in PG mode
[12:10] {lisa_jay} 22c on UAUA thanks Vad.
[12:10] {Threei} skipping RIMM short here
[12:10] {Threei} welcome lisa
[12:10] {Geo} damn
[12:10] {Geo} nice lisa
[12:10] {Threei} muddle... one more comment on CAD
[12:10] {lisa_jay} Thanks Geo.
[12:11] {Chaeron} thanks Vad... nice cancel notice... saved me big... -.08 only on RIMM
[12:11] {Threei} consider this market manner to overshoot reasonable targets
[12:11] {_Dean} out in full uaua 1st half 1:1 second half 1:2.5, second realitytrader trade both winnners
[12:11] {Geo} wierd spike
[12:11] {Threei} I was hesitant on it from get go chaeron
[12:11] {Threei} eread my first comment
[12:11] {Chaeron} I know... but you know I'm aggressive
[12:11] {_Muddleheaded} I guess everything is unreasonable now, thanks Vad.
[12:11] {Threei} beautiful Dean
[12:12] {Threei} right, that's what I mean
[12:12] {_Dean} thank you sir!
[12:12] {Threei} if fundamen tals say CAD should be where it is now (I don';t know if they are)
[12:12] {Threei} then market is very likely to overshoot it by moving much further in trend direction
[12:13] {Threei} just take a look at daily chart UAUA
[12:13] {Threei} the most fresh example
[12:13] {Geo} 15 res
[12:13] {Threei} frikin thing drops from about 14 to under 5
[12:14] {Threei} from 09/16
[12:14] {Threei} rallies from there to over 16
[12:14] {Threei} was there such drastic change of fundamentals over such short period of time?
[12:14] {Threei} this is state of utter confusion
[12:15] {Threei} and emotions-driven trading
[12:15] {peterg} you is not unlike gambling?????
[12:15] {Threei} ummm
[12:15] {peterg} never mind
[12:15] {Threei} there are some analogies
[12:15] {peterg} kdg
[12:15] {Threei} but look at it this way
[12:15] {Nemo} yeah...gambling's one of 'em
[12:15] {Threei} no, it's a valid angle
[12:16] {Threei} there are gamblers that simply gamble
[12:16] {Threei} and there are those that watch faces
[12:16] {peterg} agree & like the emphasis on multiple perspectives
[12:16] {Threei} count cards
[12:16] {lisa_jay} I am one of them...
[12:16] {Threei} remember movie Rounders?
[12:16] {lisa_jay} Gambler that is
[12:16] {Nemo} and then there's the 3rd eye
[12:16] {Threei} amazing analogy between a good professional card player and trader
[12:16] {Nemo} Rounders...great movie
[12:17] {peterg} third ear from psychoanalyst Reik, i think
[12:17] {Threei} so, in a sense that a trader as a good gambler needs to know patterns,probabilities and read emotions, yes
[12:17] {peterg} Third eye--Hindu concept?
[12:17] {Nemo} shamanistic concept
[12:17] {peterg} I like tt
[12:17] {Threei} in a sense that trading is just like throwing aa dice and hoping... only if it's a bad trader :)
[12:18] {Nemo} goes back to Tungusia...yes, beard?
[12:18] {Threei} lol
[12:18] {Threei} never been there
[12:18] {Nemo} Nothin but mosquitos and kumis, and people w/no teeth
[12:18] {peterg} where?
[12:18] {peterg} Tungusia?
[12:19] {peterg} near Louisiana?
[12:19] {peterg} or Urals?
06[12:19] * Geo totally lost
[12:19] {Nemo} russian hinterlands north of china/mongolia
[12:19] {peterg} wos
[12:19] {Geo} ok
[12:19] {peterg} wow
[12:19] {dino} ugh ice, stopped my short by .20, then drops 2.30
[12:20] {Threei} market is back to a pattern of selling second half of the day
[12:20] {Threei} let's watch for bounces to short into
[12:20] {Threei} RIMM bounce into .60 - .70 resistance area
[12:21] {Threei} wow ADBE... did we cover early
[12:21] {Threei} or rather... why didn't we reshort bounce back into 25
[12:21] {Threei} anyway, nearest resistance is .65 - .70 area
[12:21] {Nemo} too busy chatting
[12:22] {Geo} i guess vads a good host
[12:22] {Threei} lame excuse but I'll take it
[12:22] {Geo} making polite conversatiopn
[12:22] {Geo} lol
[12:22] {peterg} some champagne with your shrimp, sir?
[12:22] {Threei} well, it's either that or vodka Geo...
[12:22] {Nemo} I missed skf turn...caviar please...
[12:23] {Nemo} vodka...ran out last night
[12:23] {Threei} ADBE topped out at .59
[12:23] {Threei} a bit too fast to catch it there
[12:23] {Threei} or someone managed?
[12:23] {Chaeron} was waiting in the 60s
[12:23] {Chaeron} beuty call tho
[12:24] {Threei} RIMM nowhere even closer to resistancer
[12:24] {Chaeron} beauty too
[12:24] {Threei} market edges toward that dreadful support to break again
[12:24] {Threei} see how pace picks up as we move toward it?
[12:25] {Threei} nervous players start liquidating
[12:25] {Threei} this starts feeling like self-fulfiling fear
[12:26] {peterg} wonder how this will end today
[12:26] {Threei} not pretty, my bet
[12:26] {peterg} feels like it
[12:27] {Nemo} what are the support levels?
[12:27] {Threei} for today, NQ 1220 to break to launch next wave of panic
[12:27] {Threei} and on daily, 1200
[12:28] {Nemo} is that CAD?
[12:28] {Threei} loss of that is likely to be a terrifying event
[12:28] {Threei} CAD?
[12:28] {Threei} no
[12:28] {Threei} NASDAQ e-minis
[12:28] {Geo} waiting at 19
[12:28] {Threei} QID
[12:29] {Threei} for those who don't trade NQ
[12:29] {Nemo} Ive got Nasdq at 1600 support...oops
[12:29] {Geo} wo
[12:29] {Threei} by NASDAQ you mean COMP?
[12:30] {Nemo} I'm only in the US and we speak the same language. I have NASDAQ, DJ, and S&P as basics
[12:30] {Geo} one lot coever at 15
[12:30] {Threei} NASDAQ is measured by diff indicators
[12:31] {Geo} other breakeven
[12:31] {Geo} a bit skittish
[12:31] {Threei} COMP is whole NASDAQ
[12:31] {Threei} NDX is NASADAQ 100
[12:31] {Threei} and what I use is NASDAQ 1-- e-minis,
[12:31] {Threei} which is NQ
[12:32] {Geo} all out 4 + 1 points
[12:32] {Nemo} don't know minis here
[12:32] {Geo} minis usually lead IMO nemo
[12:32] {Threei} right, that's why we prefer them as leading indicator
[12:32] {Geo} COMPX NDX is an aggregate taken after the fact
06[12:33] * Geo agrees
[12:33] {Threei} in terms on COMP, corresponding level to short was 1600,
[12:34] {Threei} and dreadful support on daily is 1545 roughly
[12:34] {Threei} 1540 - 1545
[12:36] {Threei} some have amazing knuck for stating the obvious, going even furter than mine:
[12:36] {Threei} no really?
[12:36] {Geo} TY vad
[12:36] {Geo} crawled back and hit daily
[12:36] {Threei} cool beans
[12:37] {Geo} rimm
[12:38] {Threei} market is torn between "oanic" and "don't panic"
[12:41] {dino} this market feels bad, imo
[12:41] {Threei} OK, panic
[12:41] {dino} feels like 7900 coming again
[12:42] {Threei} NASDA is about to revisit yesterday's low
[12:44] {Threei} if NASDAQ reverses back down, look to short ADBE wih stop above .50
[12:45] {Threei} if NQ goes above 1223, panic is canceled for now
[12:46] {Threei} postponed to be exact
[12:46] {Geo} :)
[12:49] {Threei} Short Setup: ADBE .39 if stays below .50
[12:51] {Threei} come on market give up... time to panic
[12:51] {Threei} ugh
[12:51] {dptl} stopped
[12:52] {Threei} yup
[12:52] {Geo} out .52
[12:52] {Threei} most likely just a shakeout but not going to take any chances
[12:52] {Threei} anything is possible in this environment
[12:53] {Threei} keep stops tight and keep them religiously
[12:54] {_Dean} Still in ADBE from .39
[12:54] {dptl} valid again?
[12:54] {Threei} don't know dp
[12:54] {Threei} no rhyme or rythm here
[12:55] {Threei} I like easy money
[12:55] {Threei} this is not
[12:58] {Threei} Dean wins
[12:59] {_Dean} Not yet risked 15 cents.
[13:00] {_Dean} out in full
[13:00] {Threei} just in time
[13:00] {_Dean} thank you sir!
[13:01] {Threei} welcome
[13:01] {Threei} really feels no matter how much market is trying. panic selloff is inevitable
[13:01] {_Dean} 3 realitytrader trades 3 wins! can't beat that!
[13:02] {magoo} feels like 500 down today
[13:02] {Threei} and on one of them you did better than we did, lol
[13:02] {Threei} mags, then look for QID entry
[13:02] {_Dean} lol
[13:03] {Threei} here we go... inching toward yesterday's low
[13:03] {Threei} broke
[13:03] {Threei} 1200 is within spitting distance
[13:05] {dino} gj dean
[13:05] {Threei} next wave of selling should take us into 1200,
[13:05] {Threei} little bounce
[13:06] {Threei} then breakdown and wave of red all over
[13:06] {_Dean} thank you dino
[13:06] {Threei} {FRE FNM}
[13:06] {Threei} hmmm
[13:06] {Threei} can they do that?
[13:08] {Threei} bounce just like yesterday
[13:08] {Threei} don't trust it yet
[13:13] {Nemo} adbe getting off the mat??
[13:13] {Threei} just follows the market
[13:15] {Threei} still can't tell if we are off the hook for today or it's just a small bounce before swan dive
[13:16] {Threei} if we consoidate a little between 1215 and 1220 and break 1220, relief rally is likely
[13:16] {Nemo}'s a big, barbed, hook...and we ain't talkin' trout hook
[13:16] {Threei} broke 1220
[13:16] {Threei} not much of consolidation though
[13:19] {Threei} watching LVS
[13:20] {Threei} pullback buy with .50 support
[13:20] {Threei} if market sighs with reliefe, likely to go over 9
[13:21] {dino} wow lvs 150 to 8
[13:21] {Threei} took .58-.61
[13:21] {Threei} uhhu
[13:22] {Threei} there is a lot of bathwater around but I am sure there are some soapy slippery babies too
[13:22] {dino} pretty amazing, dropping stocks 20-30%/day
[13:23] {Threei} most incredible thing is,
[13:23] {Threei} it continues over and over again
[13:24] {dino} thats the amazing part.
[13:25] {dino} ironically all of the buybacks by companies are losers too. they should have gotten rid of debt, not bought back stock 2x-5x higher
[13:25] {dino} what a waste
[13:25] {Nemo} buy backs were signals to get out
[13:25] {dino} yes
[13:25] {Nemo} signals for insiders...that is
[13:26] {Threei} low volume pullback
[13:26] {dino} bunch of idiots. retire debt not buy stock....or give it to shareholders
[13:26] {dino} wasted trillions
[13:26] {Threei} now, if we are holding above 1210 and go back over 1220, we are out of the woods for the day
[13:26] {Threei} lose 1210, all bets are off
[13:26] {dino} 8800 on dji recent resistance
[13:27] {Nemo} they did give it to shareholders who turned in their stock
[13:27] {dino} 8335 recent support
[13:27] {dino} lost me nemo
[13:28] {Threei} and when they cut there won't be consensus who actually cuts and who continues pumping like there is no tomorrow
[13:28] {dino} but heres' ge that reat company that everybody praises jack welsh about. bought back couple billion at 35
[13:28] {dino} plus jack put them in the mess
[13:28] {Nemo} If you were a financial insider, you knew the feces were about to hit the ventilator
[13:29] {Nemo} You offer a buyback at the top of the market, contact wealth managers at the largest firms, and your largest shareholders, and tell them to sell
[13:30] {dino} it sure looks that way
[13:30] {dino} and then of course, blame the shorts
[13:30] {Nemo} nope
[13:31] {Nemo} naked shorting is another's fractional reserve selling
[13:31] {lisa_jay} Vad, long LVS stop still under .5
[13:31] {Threei} yup
[13:31] {dino} my point, the shorts were right
[13:31] {Threei} NQ lost 1210
[13:31] {Threei} not good
[13:32] {Threei} stopped LVS'
[13:32] {dino} another leg down coming
[13:33] {Threei} CNN: election result impact on market
[13:34] {Threei} ADBE breaks day low
[13:37] {Threei} 1200 scares the hell out of market
[13:37] {Threei} tries to move away from it
[13:37] {Threei} then comes back like rabbit ti a snake
[13:38] {dino} jumping 70 pt in minute
[13:38] {Threei} amazing
[13:38] {dino} that used to be a day
[13:40] {Threei} usually this kind of abnormal volatility signalled trend reversal
[13:41] {Threei} yet who will risk to say ultimate bottom is in
[13:41] {dino} bruce will
[13:42] {_Bruce} tough call dino - still thinking down though
[13:42] {dino} you don't want to know what i'm thinking
[13:43] {_Bruce} lol
[13:43] {Threei} coarse languagem vioelnce and nudity?
[13:43] {Threei} only in better typing
[13:43] {Threei} OK... feels like we are more likely to put relief rally on
[13:44] {dino} aapl green
[13:44] {Threei} ADBE long on this pullback
[13:44] {Threei} .15
[13:44] {Threei} half lot
[13:45] {Threei} stop under 24
[13:45] {dino} hope you're right 3i. my gut says -500 today
[13:45] {Threei} not a scalp for me
[13:45] {Threei} looking to sell closer to .50
[13:46] {Threei} stop is tight enough dino...
[13:46] {Threei} this kind of trades with this riskm we are taking every day many times
[13:48] {Threei} market is defending this support with all the fury of mama bear
[13:48] {Threei} hunters are circling though, lol
[13:48] {Geo} heheh excellent commentary vad
[13:49] {Geo} out
[13:49] {Threei} ADBE holding by the tread
[13:51] {Threei} market looks into abyss and backs away from it... then comes back with scared curiosity
[13:51] {Nemo} are you out?
[13:51] {_Case} Feels like sell programs are drawing descending triangles.
[13:51] {magoo} back
06[13:51] * _Bruce slaps magoo around a bit with a large trout
[13:51] {_Case} I've witnessed this on Bailout Friday
[13:51] {Threei} ok, out ADBRE
[13:51] {magoo} nice..i miss that bruce
[13:51] {_Bruce} aapl at lows
[13:52] {Threei} 1200 is tagged
[13:52] {_Case} Watched the texbook collapse... but stayed in... thinking it's a fade...
[13:52] {_Case} Only to regret on Crash Monday
[13:53] {Threei} shakeouts all arounbd'
[13:53] {Threei} no bounce, no breakdwon
[13:53] {magoo} vad 1200 correspondes to where on qqqq 29?
[13:55] {Threei} just under 29.50
[13:56] {Nemo} RIMM: steady uptrend since 12:30
[13:56] {_Bruce} -500 dino?
[13:56] {hawkfan4} geesh, JASO 4.75, ESLR 2.52, SOLF 5.54. Where have all the good times gone?
[13:56] {_Bruce} lets borrow vads money and short the hell out of market
[13:57] {Threei} his projection for DJI Bruce
[13:57] {Threei} look at CSIQ hawk
[13:57] {Threei} can you believe this price?
[13:58] {hawkfan4} sad, so sad. they were such good friends too
[13:59] {hawkfan4} DRYS 17.70 and looks like it's headed to single digits
[14:01] {dino} lod
[14:02] {dino} 8335
[14:02] {dino} breaking
[14:02] {Threei} here comes dreadful breakdown
[14:02] {dino} oh oh, 8200 then capit 7900
[14:03] {_Bruce} halloween havoc
[14:03] {Threei} totally
[14:03] {Threei} panic ensues
[14:05] {_Bruce} 25 is low for q's - not quite there yet
[14:05] {Threei} strong magnet
[14:05] {Threei} bounces are meek
[14:06] {_Bruce} meek - you talkin market or magster?
[14:07] {Threei} watch NQ for short around this level
[14:07] {Threei} and QID for long
[14:07] {Threei} very hard to assign exact numbers
[14:08] {Threei} if you get a feel, go for it, if not just sit it out
[14:09] {Threei} if dino is right and we headed for -500, QID goes for 86 or more
[14:10] {dino} lol
[14:11] {Threei} -200 so far
[14:11] {Threei} and ticking
[14:12] {Threei} here we go, next leg
[14:13] {Threei} who went for QID half out here
[14:13] {magoo} me
[14:13] {magoo} .12
[14:13] {Threei} 84.12?
[14:14] {magoo} yes
[14:14] {Threei} good job
[14:14] {Threei} sell half, put the rest for sale closer to 86
[14:14] {Threei} close your eye and pray
[14:14] {Geo} out NQ 86.50
[14:14] {Threei} from?
[14:14] {Geo} 8 points on one
[14:15] {Geo} 94.5
[14:15] {_Bruce} l aapl 93.16
[14:15] {Geo} stopped second
[14:15] {Geo} was trailing :(
[14:15] {magoo} out qid ty
[14:16] {dino} gj
[14:16] {Geo} 10 points total
[14:17] {dino} beauty
[14:17] {lisa_jay} Magoo, what was your entry and exit on QID? Thanks.
[14:17] {_Bruce} out half aapl +.42
[14:17] {Geo} nice bruce
[14:18] {Geo} thanks dino
[14:18] {Geo} looks like i had a tight stop
[14:18] {dino} ok, half way therendx, comp new 52 week lows
[14:18] {dino} there, ndx
[14:19] {Threei} Geo... you know you can't trail NQ as you do stocks
[14:19] {Geo} yeah :(
[14:19] {Geo} will try some more on sim
[14:19] {Threei} here come 86 QID
[14:20] {magoo} dino gonna get his 500
[14:20] {Threei} out .70
[14:20] {magoo} beauty vad
[14:20] {Threei} close enough
[14:21] {magoo} 86 prints
[14:21] {Threei} lol
[14:21] {Threei} we know
[14:21] {Threei} btw, mags
[14:21] {Threei} about your QID entry
[14:21] {Threei} that was breakout
[14:21] {Threei} which is not usually a the best way to play this beast
[14:22] {Threei} its volatility gives a lot of severe pullbacks
[14:22] {Threei} it's usually better pley on those
[14:22] {Threei} play too
[14:22] {magoo} ewhere u get in vad?
[14:23] {Threei} whenit pulled back to about 85.20 or so, I got it at 83.60
[14:23] {Threei} to 83.29, sorry
[14:23] {Threei} ok, everyone's blood pressure is normal?
[14:24] {Threei} historical events continue
[14:25] {Threei} truly, this is stuff to tell your grandkids about
[14:25] {Geo} so you telling em tonight vad?
[14:25] {Threei} who?
[14:26] {Geo} [11:25] {Threei} truly, this is stuff to tell your grandkids about
06[14:26] * Geo ducks
[14:26] {Threei} careful
[14:26] {Threei} trout is unholstered
[14:26] {magoo} trout?
06[14:26] * Geo slaps magoo around a bit with a large trout
[14:26] {Geo} this one
[14:27] {Threei} hmm.. preventive trout?
[14:27] {Geo} i thought he asked
[14:27] {Geo} hmmm nice pullback
[14:27] {_Bruce} exited balance of aapl +.38
[14:27] {Threei} wtg
[14:28] {Geo} we miss ya bruce !!
[14:28] {Threei} chart wise, this bounce is asking to be shorted
[14:28] {_Bruce} thanx vadster
[14:28] {_Bruce} lucky
[14:28] {Threei} but honestly speaking
[14:28] {Threei} I'll stay away for now
[14:29] {_Bruce} I trade like dino now - if the thing isn't going to move a buck whey even look at it?
[14:29] {Nemo} When is the crash scheduled for today?
[14:29] {Threei} dino is intervening into my teritory now Bruce...
[14:30] {Threei} trades a lot of 15-30 cents play
[14:30] {Geo} thats just wrong
[14:30] {Threei} si as a countermeasure I play more of $1 moves
[14:30] {_Bruce} lol
06[14:30] * _Bruce slaps dino around a bit with a large trout
[14:30] {Threei} it's already here Nemo... it's just a mini-crash
[14:31] {Threei} for now at least
[14:31] {Nemo} Nahhhh...we're still in the range for today
[14:31] {Threei} sensitivity has changed greatly
[14:31] {Threei} -250 is nothing these days
[14:31] {dino} lol bruce
[14:32] {Threei} we bat eye at -500
[14:32] {Threei} -700, OK, that's crash
[14:32] {dino} yes, but 552 range
[14:32] {dino} unfortunately, normal too
[14:33] {_Bruce} taking break here
[14:34] {Threei} day was pretty much around flat for me before this last drop... some stops, some winds, mostly balancing each other
[14:34] {Threei} then this QID play took in black sharply
[14:36] {Threei} 1200 break NQ is scary long signal
[14:36] {Threei} for strong hearts only
[14:37] {Threei} 29.50 QQQQ corresponding level
[14:37] {Threei} 83 short QID corresponding level
[14:38] {Geo} stop for NQ pls vad ?
[14:38] {Threei} under 95
[14:38] {Geo} yeah was afraid of that :(
[14:38] {Threei} target about 1215
[14:40] {Geo} 1:1 one lot out
[14:41] {Threei} what can you do Geo, this is price of volastility
[14:41] {Geo} i banked with heavy heart
[14:41] {Geo} TY
[14:41] {Threei} QID reached almost dollar profit, then bounced all the way back into trigger
[14:41] {Threei} it happens so fast on these moves, you just need to react on it rather than wait for a call
[14:42] {Geo} yeah
[14:42] {Threei} QQQQ hit .65
[14:42] {Geo} in 1200:50 out 1206
[14:42] {Threei} least effective of all of them leverage wise
[14:43] {Threei} bounce from here again
[14:44] {Threei} got 94 or so?
[14:44] {Threei} they tage levels and jump of them faster than I can type
[14:48] {Nemo} figures...quick 10 minutes away...sheesh
[14:49] {Geo} hmm Goldman leaying off 10%
[14:49] {Geo} about 3500
[14:52] {Threei} unclear here...
[14:53] {magoo} seems to easy to sell off into last hour again...but thats what been doing
[14:54] {Threei} feels more like down but not enough confidence for play
[14:56] {Threei} ok, working assumption is, one more little bounce and down again
[14:57] {Threei} QID around 84.50 is probably long
[14:57] {Geo} that was fast
[14:58] {Threei} got .56, looking to exit for about $1
[14:59] {Threei} sheesh
[15:00] {Geo} wow
[15:00] {Threei} stopped for -.15
[15:00] {Threei} too greedy
[15:00] {Nemo} Ti To
[15:00] {Threei} as if 70 cents was not enough, lol
[15:00] {lisa_jay} Vad, what kind of stop do you give for a volatile stock like QID? Thanks.
[15:01] {Threei} originally about 30 cents
[15:01] {Threei} but tightenting it as it nmoves
[15:03] {Threei} looks like line in sand is drawn for todsay
[15:03] {Threei} higher low
[15:04] {Threei} look for entry on pullback
[15:04] {Threei} NQ around 1195
[15:04] {magoo} too bad this mkt wouldn't go green 300
[15:05] {Threei} QQQQ around .37
[15:05] {magoo} mess up the shotrts
[15:05] {Threei} like clockwork
[15:05] {Threei} got NQ anyone?
[15:05] {Threei} or Qs?
[15:05] {Geo} no
[15:06] {Threei} come on... gave you exxact number this time
[15:06] {Threei} and it was hit perfectly
[15:06] {Threei} 11 points NQ
[15:06] {Threei} in one gasp
[15:06] {Geo} :(
[15:06] {Threei} 30 cents Qs
[15:06] {Threei} anyone??
06[15:07] * Threei removes himself to a very remote monastery
06[15:07] * Threei removes himself to a very remote monastery in Tibet without wi-fi
[15:07] {Geo} tivo?
06[15:07] * Threei removes himself to a very remote monastery in Tibet without wi-fi, Tivo but preferrably with strictly female personal
[15:08] {Chaeron} strick female personnel?
06[15:08] * Geo sending logs to the lady with the frying pan
06[15:08] * Threei cuts off Internet and burns down mailbox
[15:09] {Chaeron} drys
[15:09] {Geo} sniff NQ..... why did you leave without me?
[15:09] {Geo} 20 points
[15:09] {Threei} relief rally mode
[15:09] {Threei} pullbacks are for entry
[15:10] {Threei} pullbacks are likely to be severe
[15:10] {Threei} don't jump in on slight correction, wait for sharp down
[15:10] {Threei} Qs over 60 cents jump
[15:10] {Threei} and no takers
[15:10] {Threei} you guys...
[15:11] {Chaeron} a bit nervous... hesitant
[15:11] {Chaeron} and then, bam... too late
[15:11] {Geo} same here
[15:11] {Chaeron} more of psychological part of your training... not mechanical... important
[15:15] {Threei} oullback is likely here
[15:16] {Threei} Qs to about .60-.70
[15:16] {Threei} NQ to about 1210-1212
[15:17] {magoo} needs to reverse quick
[15:19] {Threei} one more leg down probably
[15:19] {Threei} very quick
[15:20] {Threei} entry time
[15:20] {Threei} in Q
[15:20] {Threei} .60
[15:20] {Threei} stop under .50
[15:21] {Threei} 1:2 in a hurry
[15:21] {Threei} out .78
[15:22] {Threei} anyone this time?
[15:22] {lisa_jay} .20 thanks Vad.
[15:22] {Threei} whew... no, thank you
[15:22] {Threei} a bit too soon out
[15:22] {Threei} but heck
[15:23] {lisa_jay} :-)
[15:23] {lisa_jay} I got .61 as entry, what would be the exit.
[15:23] {lisa_jay} Sorry - stop?
[15:23] {Threei} [15:20] {Threei} stop under .50
[15:23] {lisa_jay} Most are probably in the trade still.
[15:23] {lisa_jay} Thank you.
[15:24] {Threei} hmmm... thought of it of just a bounce scalp
[15:24] {Threei} underestimated market's eagerness to recover some
[15:25] {Threei} stuill pretty nervous out there
[15:25] {Threei} look how sharp pullbacks are
[15:25] {lisa_jay} yes.
[15:26] {dino} i'm using 8200-88 range for now.
[15:27] {dino} patience, your thoughts?
[15:28] {Threei} frankly, while I do appreciate these wide rane relatively fast days... today is too fast
[15:28] {Threei} hard to call things in time
[15:28] {Threei} have to almost type and lcik my entries at the same time
[15:29] {dino} yeah, i sat aside afternoon. too wierd
[15:29] {Geo} you need a typing monkey vad
[15:29] {Threei} I have a cat who walks on keyboard
[15:29] {Threei} will it do?
[15:29] {Geo} nope
[15:30] {_Dean} doing just fine until i had chicken for lunch
[15:30] {lisa_jay} Trust me...pets or kids only add to distractions.
[15:30] {Threei} let's try... come here george
[15:30] {Threei} cijfguy sjrha;aw9ugjd
[15:30] {Threei} makes sense?
[15:31] {Threei} OK, cat is out
[15:31] {Threei} this drop I don't like
[15:31] {Geo} today was tiring and wierd
[15:32] {Threei} violated upward channel
[15:32] {dino} could be the classic eod selloff
[15:32] {dino} go for lows or more
[15:32] {Threei} not buying this pullback for sure
[15:32] {Threei} this is not a pullback anymore
[15:32] {Threei} rather attenot to reverse the tren on 1 min
[15:33] {Threei} attempt
[15:33] {Threei} trend
[15:33] {Threei} lol
[15:33] {Threei} Geo... monkey would do better, I'll have to admit
[15:33] {Geo} :)
[15:34] {Threei} don't smile at me... you should be objecting, consoling, saying things like "no way, you are still better than monkey"
[15:34] {Geo} sheesh
[15:34] {Threei} lol
[15:34] {Geo} youre the best vad
[15:34] {Threei} great, now monkey feels deeply offended
[15:35] {Threei} OK, let's see if this bounce is short
[15:35] {Geo} man my head hurts from the psychedelic LII colors
[15:35] {Threei} Qs about .75
[15:35] {Threei} first weakness from here
[15:36] {Threei} in .74
[15:36] {Threei} stop .81
[15:37] {_Dean} in Q's .74 short
[15:37] {Threei} nervous jumping, not likeing it
[15:38] {Threei} prefer more smooth trades
[15:38] {Threei} out .65
[15:38] {Geo} half out
[15:39] {Threei} better now
[15:39] {Geo} 1/4 out
[15:39] {Threei} 1: alot
[15:40] {Threei} feel free to cover as you see fit
[15:41] {Geo} all out .51
[15:41] {Threei} too jumpy for my taste
[15:41] {Threei} I am a lazy tyoe, I hate struggling
[15:41] {Threei} profits must come easy
[15:42] {Threei} Dean?
[15:42] {Threei} you covered?
[15:44] {Threei} I find it hard to believe SLW price
[15:44] {_Case} Indeed.
[15:45] {Threei} you know what
[15:45] {Threei} it could be worth taking some overnight
[15:45] {Threei} stop under 3.30
[15:45] {_Case} It's almost at its IPO
[15:45] {_Dean} ou...
[15:45] {Threei} if today's bounce gets any continuastion tomorrow, it's very likely to get back to 4 at least
[15:46] {dino} what the?
[15:47] {Threei} lol
[15:47] {Threei} let me finish your sentence as Stewie would: What's the deuce??
[15:47] {hawkfan4} lol
[15:48] {Geo} wow dow +100
[15:48] {Geo} whats he range today?
[15:48] {dino} 8243-8795
[15:49] {Geo} nice
[15:49] {Threei} one of those near-extraordinary days
[15:49] {Threei} rally, sharp breakdown, new lows, rally again
[15:50] {Threei} all happening with lightning speed
[15:50] {Threei} I believe we handle it col-bloodedly enough (if that's a word)
[15:51] {Threei} hopefully tomorrow we get more of clear direction and a bit more manageable speed
[15:51] {Threei} and if not, our approach is the same:
[15:51] {_Dean} knocked over my bottle of gin...actually picked up +28 pts on QQQQ trade...4 for 4 today.
[15:51] {Threei} tight stops, reading things as they come, being easy to change the opinion
[15:51] {_Dean} Thanks Vad!
[15:51] {dino} gj
[15:51] {Threei} great job Dean
[15:51] {Geo} nice dean
[15:52] {Chaeron} nice one dean... and gin? must be Dean Martin
[15:52] {_Dean} Thanks guys!
[15:52] {Threei} if any of guests get any questions for tomorrow, prepare them and don't hesitate to ask
[15:52] {_Case} Thanks Vad
[15:52] {_Dean} have to stop drinking out of the bottle.
[15:52] {Threei} case :)
[15:53] {Threei} not taking any more trades today
[15:53] {Threei} took SLW overnight
[15:53] {Threei} unless it goes to 4 today, lol
[15:53] {_Case} Wouldn't surprise me :-)
[15:53] {Threei} lol, no kidding
[15:53] {Threei} any questions so far guys?
[15:53] {Threei} gals?
[15:54] {dino} dean's worse than magoo, at least he waits until 3:30 to crack a beer
[15:54] {Threei} lol
[15:55] {_Dean} enjoying every minute of it too....
[15:55] {dino} :)
[15:56] {_Case} FXE smells of USD reversal, if it occurs overnight I guess we get Vad's SLW target price at premarket
[15:56] {_Dean} dino.)
[15:56] {Threei} I won't mind
[15:56] {Threei} nothing's sweeter than to start day with +.50
[15:56] {_Case} :-)
[15:57] {Threei} and with about 15 cents risk... shrug
[15:57] {Threei} Ok guys, thank you all
[15:57] {Threei} have a great evening
[15:57] {_Case} Thanks are ours Vad
[15:57] {Threei} see you all tomorrow
[15:57] {_Case} For sure
[15:57] {_Case} and also Monday :-)
[15:58] {Threei} if there is Monday
[15:58] {Threei} interventionists may just cancel it
[15:58] {Threei} or whole October
[15:58] {_Case} Good point.
[15:58] {Threei} or whole fall
[15:59] {magoo} TY vad
[15:59] {_Case} Thanks everybody. It was fun. See you
[16:00] {peterg} bBye aalll
[16:00] {dptl} have a good evening all
[16:01] {_Dean} Thank you everyone!
[16:08] {dino} take care