Friday, December 4, 2009

Dec 04 2009

That was one nice day for shorting. FCX, AIG, WFC , CAT, plus some scalps on a long side for bounces - much easier day than what we had over last month or so.

Session Time: Fri Dec 04 00:00:01 2009

[08:16] {nemo} ahhhh....Raven....
[08:20] {Raven} ahhh ... yes
[08:22] {nemo} ahhhh...can you provide some adult supervision here...I noticed the group missed a great short on cat, we just can't have that.
[08:23] {nemo} Les...where were you yesterday?
[08:24] {Raven} not my job
[08:24] {Les} that scares me that you can track my movements here Nemo
[08:24] {nemo} I used to work in intelligence
[08:24] {Les} don't say army intelligence
[08:24] {Raven} oxymoron?
[08:24] {Les} then Ill call you an oxymoron
[08:24] {nemo} as you may have noticed...I was just going to say that raven
[08:24] {Les} like Raven
[08:25] {Raven} lol
[08:25] {nemo} damn, you guys got to it before I did
[08:25] {Les} stressed out yesterday
[08:25] {Raven} perhaps we should start over
[08:25] {Les} you know how I am licked
[08:25] {nemo} which reminds me...I mentioned the whole Disgruntled Postal-Worker Fantasy List thingy?
[08:25] {Raven} good morning
[08:25] {nemo} How some names are in pen...some in pencil?
[08:25] {strider} cover short BAC +.10
[08:25] {Les} i am in pen
[08:26] {nemo} nahhh
[08:26] {Les} or so i believe
[08:26] {nemo} not even on the list les
[08:26] {nemo} hahh...your listless
[08:26] {nemo} which, is not a bad thing
[08:26] {Raven} sigh
[08:26] {Les} :(
[08:26] {nemo} you covered strider?
[08:26] {nemo} watch fcx. 83.65 important level
[08:27] {Les} not important enough to be targeted by a maniac. thats depressing
[08:27] {nemo} too far away les...Raven, he's another story
06[08:27] * strider slaps strider around a bit with a large bowl of hasty pudding
[08:27] {nemo} you at harvard strider?
[08:27] {Raven} __{{{}
[08:27] {nemo} oh no, Ravenspeak
[08:28] {strider} no, just a case of premature evacuation on BAC
[08:28] {Les} Nemo, is market depth, w hich is what i use at IB, same as level 2?
[08:29] {strider} yes, Les.
[08:29] {nemo} it incorporates LII and time&sales in one view with cumulative volume at each level, which I think is better
[08:29] {nemo} hey les, how do you post graphics here for people to view?
[08:30] {nemo} jobs must have been good
[08:30] {BillyD} GM
[08:30] {Les}
[08:31] {Les} ah no I found something else on my IB software.
[08:31] {Les}
[08:32] {Les} ah no, its not this
[08:32] {nemo} yes, that's good
[08:32] {Les} no wait a minute
[08:32] {Les}
[08:33] {Les} the right screen
[08:33] {Les} that level 2?
[08:33] {nemo} yes, and more
[08:33] {Les} the left window is for one click trading like laser
[08:34] {Les} so are you guys trading with T&S AND level 2 on screen?
[08:34] {nemo} LII is the bid/ask and prices and the lots at those prices
[08:34] {nemo} what's nice is you have a histogram showing accumulation at each level which helps identify support and resistance
[08:35] {nemo} one thing that would be nice was if there was a numeric tally in the histogram of shares traded at that level
[08:35] {Les} ok, noticed it but never used it
[08:36] {nemo} what you can see there and a chart would confirm, that the 111.40 level is important
[08:37] {Les} picked up vad's scalping course this week, so looking more into software I have
[08:38] {Threei} US) NOV UNEMPLOYMENT RATE: 10.0% V 10.2%E
[08:38] {Threei} - No revisions
[08:38] {Threei} ***note: the early 1980's unemployment rate peaked in Dec 1982 at 10.8%
[08:40] {Les} hi vad. lot more machines and useless paper pushing jobs invented since 1980
[08:42] {Les} thats rather disturbing thought
[08:42] {Les} 1980's - height of cold war
[08:42] {Les} massive military expenditure/manufacturing
[08:43] {Les} not same mix of sector related economic GDP now
[08:47] {strider} BAC spike
[08:47] {Threei} what isn't
[08:47] {strider} just in last minute
[08:48] {strider} trading .45 above new offering.
[08:48] {Threei} still in the red
[08:48] {Threei} everything else is green
[08:49] {Threei} BAC S&P affirms ratings; raises preferred stock rating (15.76, 0.00, 0.00%)
[08:51] {strider} wow BAC
[08:51] {nemo} yeah...I was tempted @ .35
[08:53] {Les} wow. gold cliff diving
[08:54] {nemo} yeah, this implies strengthening US $ up too
[08:54] {Les} Vad had to go and mention bubble and gold in the same breath yesterday
[08:54] {Threei} lol
[08:54] {Threei} but you know Les... "this time it's different"
[08:55] {Threei} goldbugs will cite all kinds of reasons why this is not a buble,
[08:55] {Moose} gm all
[08:55] {Threei} the only problem is: each bubble had such "reasons"
[08:55] {Threei} moose :)
[08:56] {nemo} do you have a squirrel friend, Moose?
[08:56] {BillyD} lol
[08:56] {Moose} :D
[08:56] {Les} so you think it is same scammers selling gold like they sold housing etc?
[08:56] {nemo} cycles Les
[08:57] {Threei} no les
[08:57] {Threei} I don't view any bubble as scam
[08:57] {strider} short BAC .62 stop .80
[08:57] {Threei} scammers is a ;part of any bubble
[08:57] {Threei} but only because bubbles create scam-inducing environment
[08:58] {nemo} watch for bounce at .55 strider
[08:58] {Les} k
[08:58] {nemo} Les thinks I'm a maniac, Vad
[08:58] {Threei} same way as housing bubble created a lot of oppportunities for scammers,
[08:58] {BillyD} lol, you aren't
[08:58] {strider} thx
[08:58] {Threei} and they moved in of colurse
[08:59] {Threei} but did they create bubble?
[08:59] {strider} stop to .70
[09:00] {nemo} nice work early though strider, got out with profit before the explosion
[09:00] {BillyD} Vad, any thought s on selling this gap up
[09:01] {nemo} wow $ really up
[09:01] {Threei} thoughts? me? I am flattered
[09:01] {nemo} Billy wasn't thinking
[09:01] {strider} sounds kind of insulting to me.
[09:01] {BillyD} my bad
[09:02] {nemo} funny you should say that strider, had a teacher, whenever he thought your answer was idiotic, he'd say, "that's a sophisticated answer."
[09:02] {Threei} strider, I always assume the best intention is people (while reloading the gun)
[09:03] {Threei} billy... I'd put it this way:
[09:03] {nemo} strider...I think we were separated at birth (which was a good thing for you)
[09:03] {Threei} I expect selloff at some point,
[09:03] {Threei} I have no means to determine the timing for now,
[09:03] {strider} yeah, to selloff
[09:03] {strider} no to separation at birth.
[09:03] {nemo} hehehehe
[09:03] {Threei} Isuspect the early shorters will be chewed up and spit out,
[09:04] {Threei} and I'd rather miss a short than be too early
[09:04] {BillyD} agree, thx.....
[09:04] {nemo} yeah, perfect spot for a bear trap
[09:05] {nemo} having said that, strider's bac short looking beter
[09:05] {Threei} sao, this is kind of day where I'd avoid having any expectations,
[09:05] {Threei} and instead simply go with setup by setup, minute by minute approach
[09:05] {Threei} take them as they come,
[09:05] {fernp} Good morning everybody
[09:05] {Threei} let them work or get stopped,
[09:05] {Threei} fern :)
[09:05] {BillyD} hi fern
[09:05] {Threei} regroup if a few in row don't work
[09:06] {strider} move stop to .66
[09:06] {larisa} gm
[09:06] {Threei} larisa :)
[09:06] {BillyD} hi larisa
[09:06] {nemo} lari
[09:06] {larisa} :)
[09:14] {strider} stop BAC -.05
[09:14] {nemo} yeah, that frickin .55 level
[09:15] {nemo} burger king is here
[09:16] {strider} erp
[09:16] {bkhmd} lol
[09:16] {bkhmd} GM all
[09:16] {Threei} bkh!
[09:16] {Threei} whare have you been man
[09:17] {bkhmd} california desert
[09:17] {Threei} ummm... why??
[09:17] {bkhmd} work
[09:17] {Threei} oh
[09:17] {bkhmd} 3 hotels in 3 nights damn im tired
[09:17] {bkhmd} paper trading today
[09:17] {Threei} OK... I was trying top envision why one would go there for pleasure :)
[09:18] {nemo} fine desert cuisine
[09:18] {bkhmd} I was reviewing my trading log and noticed i have never made money on fridays lol
[09:18] {bkhmd} is today friday?
[09:18] {strider} Friday is tough for me too.
[09:19] {bkhmd} but I was watching new last night and BAC seems like it could be in play today
[09:19] {strider} short WFC .09
[09:20] {strider} stop .20
[09:21] {ese} good morning
[09:21] {nemo} dude
[09:21] {ese} dude
[09:22] {bkhmd} dudes
[09:22] {bkhmd} lol
[09:22] {ese} bk
[09:22] {Threei} ese :)
[09:22] {ese} king dude
[09:22] {strider} ese, etc.
[09:22] {nemo} gnite John Boy
[09:22] {ese} st
[09:27] {ese} anything on your radar vad
[09:27] {Threei} kind of everything
[09:27] {Threei} still have to narrow it down
[09:27] {nemo} strider, me being the cautious fellow, I'm not sure I'd want to ride that short into the open
[09:27] {Threei} this kind of massive action prevents fiunding single best candidate
[09:28] {BillyD} WFC for possible short idea here off 27
[09:28] {strider} out WFC +.03....don't want to hold through open.
[09:28] {ese} agreed
[09:28] {Threei} good idea strider
[09:29] {Threei} opening action is likely to be furious
[09:29] {ese} ya st......good plan
[09:29] {Threei} better let the dust settle than get caught on a wrong side
[09:29] {Threei} or right side but too fast to benefit
[09:29] {strider} which means that data will likely lag.
[09:29] {dino} gm all
[09:30] {Threei} dino :)
[09:30] {BillyD} hey dino
[09:30] {ese} dino
[09:30] {strider} damn WFC
[09:30] {nemo} my system froze
[09:31] {Threei} need quotes?
[09:31] {Threei} fine here
[09:31] {nemo} no it's back
[09:31] {nemo} weird
[09:31] {nemo} sorry strider
[09:32] {ese} cagc dino
[09:32] {nemo} look to re short over 27?
[09:33] {nemo} mmmhh aapl pulled back
[09:33] {dino} chems strong latey ese
[09:33] {Threei} don't be in rush to sort, IMO
[09:33] {Threei} to short
[09:35] {magoo} morning
[09:35] {Threei} mags!
[09:35] {nemo} magus!
[09:35] {nemo} any luck mags?
[09:35] {Threei} Long Setup: BAC .75 break
[09:35] {strider} hi-capacity mags
[09:35] {Threei} if stays above .65
[09:36] {strider} in .74
[09:36] {Threei} wow RMBS
[09:38] {ese} &^%&%^ limit orders DO NOT repeat DO NOT work on fslr
[09:38] {dino} trgt hl l .40
[09:38] {ese} had one in for 132.40 and it missed it
[09:38] {Moose} suggested stop for BAC?
[09:39] {nemo} .65 moose
[09:39] {Threei} [09:35] {Threei} if stays above .65
[09:39] {Moose} thx
[09:39] {nemo} get the pine tree branches out of your ears
[09:39] {Threei} White House Econ Advisor Goolsbee: Looks like we are turning a corner on the economy
[09:39] {Moose} 3i... ic thx
[09:39] {nemo} GLD short?
[09:40] {Threei} always... lol
[09:41] {Threei} ok BAC, time for explosion
[09:41] {strider} out +.10
[09:41] {fernp} ty ty
[09:41] {Threei} good boy
[09:41] {Threei} 1:1
[09:42] {bkhmd} ty Mr Vad
[09:42] {Threei} Preivew: Oct Factory Orders due out at 10amET
[09:42] {Threei} **consensus expectation: 0.0%e v 0.9% prior
[09:42] {Threei} welcome
[09:42] {BillyD} out ty
[09:42] {Threei} Preview: Philadelphia Fed President Charles Plosser scheduled to speak on "Lessons from the Financial Crisis" at 10amET
[09:42] {Threei} - a prepared text and audience Q&A are expects
[09:42] {Threei} seriously?
[09:43] {Threei} we are at such distance from it already that they can derive lessons?
[09:43] {Threei} OK, who partials, game plan:
[09:43] {Threei} half out,
[09:43] {Threei} stop to under b/e
[09:43] {Threei} offer 1.4 more at .95
[09:43] {Threei} 1/4
[09:45] {dino} dji bouncing around
[09:45] {Threei} earlier:
[09:45] {Threei} ENTR JMP Securities Initiates ENTR with Market Outperform, price target: $6
[09:45] {ese} Lstx .96
[09:46] {nemo} amzn relatively weak...weird
[09:46] {Threei} SEED...
[09:46] {Threei} ugh
[09:46] {Threei} see if pulls back toward 11.80
[09:47] {nemo} what quote server you using vad?
[09:47] {Threei} 17
[09:47] {ese} out stx .06 +.10
[09:47] {magoo} quotes vwery clunky here..u too nemo?
[09:48] {nemo} yeah, my software has a hangover
[09:48] {BillyD} 13 is good here
[09:48] {Threei} smooth like baby's behind here
[09:48] {dino} out trgt .70, +.30
[09:48] {magoo} yea..i know..but doesnt help me...been suffering for months now
[09:48] {strider} SEED offer at 11.90
[09:49] {magoo} ther4e east coaste feed has definate issues
[09:49] {fernp} I've reloaded BAC at 15.75 again
[09:49] {Threei} scalp it fern
[09:49] {strider} oh well.
[09:49] {Threei} don't oversit it
[09:49] {magoo} i hit SEED .09
[09:50] {dino} ttwo
[09:51] {Threei} only lazy ones haven't downgraded TTWO today
[09:51] {Threei} great leadership
[09:52] {nemo} amzn just fell below yesterday's close
[09:53] {ese} nice one on trgt dino......thin...but nice
[09:53] {dino} feeling 6.50 area bottom
[09:53] {Threei} AIG
[09:53] {magoo} should be biouncer somewhere, unless neg news
[09:53] {Threei} watching for bounce
[09:53] {dino} thx
[09:53] {nemo} fcx below yesterday's close
[09:53] {dino} played it well yesterday too
[09:53] {Threei} Long Setup: AIG .60 break
[09:53] {Threei} stop under .50
[09:53] {magoo} in aig
[09:54] {Threei} you out SEED yet mags?
[09:54] {strider} in .60
[09:54] {magoo} no, but soon it seems
[09:55] {Threei} I would sell it on that spike over .20...
[09:55] {dino} ttwo sm l .15
[09:55] {magoo} waiting .43..just didnt make it
[09:55] {nemo} rebooting Laser
[09:55] {Threei} its best momo days are behind for now
[09:55] {magoo} ok
[09:56] {strider} factory orders report 3 min.
[09:56] {Threei} takes too long AIG...
[09:56] {Threei} I like bounces working fastr
[09:57] {Threei} let's cut it in half guys
[09:57] {Threei} numbers in 3 min
[09:57] {dino} ttwo stop is .89
[09:58] {Threei} Belarus Pres Lukashenko fires Minsters of Def, Econ, Tax
[09:58] {Threei} hey, this is great progress
[09:58] {Threei} they used to shoot them instead of firing
06[09:58] * Threei kicks AIG in the rear
[09:59] {nemo} maybe shooting was better
[09:59] {Threei} hmm
[09:59] {Moose} yikes
[09:59] {Threei} did I confuse the sides?
[09:59] {BillyD} wicked
[09:59] {Threei} was it frontz?
[09:59] {nemo} some firing squads over here wouldn't be a bad idea
[09:59] {strider} out -.23
[09:59] {Les} Nemo
[09:59] {nemo} yes Les
[10:00] {Les} sorry, forgot exclamation mark
[10:00] {Les} Nemo!
[10:00] {Moose} -.18
[10:00] {nemo} yes Les
[10:00] {Threei} US) OCT FACTORY ORDERS: 0.6% V 0.0%E
[10:01] {Les} market isn't celebrating
[10:01] {Moose} 3i... maybe he gets fired and shot
[10:02] {Threei} lol
[10:02] {nemo} you mean "shots fired"
[10:02] {dino} esi ouch, -10 in 5 days
[10:02] {Les} Chernobyl is in Belarus, isn't it?
[10:02] {Threei} no
[10:02] {Threei} Ukraine
[10:02] {Les} ok, so no detention there
[10:03] {strider} you still in AIG vad?
[10:03] {Threei} ??
[10:03] {Threei} why woudl I?
[10:03] {Threei} half out .64, half out .46
[10:03] {strider} didn't say anything..
[10:04] {bkhmd} stop was hit stride
[10:04] {Threei} I suggested to cut it in half near b/e
[10:04] {Threei} then stop was hit
[10:04] {Threei} what to say?
[10:04] {Threei} it's non-negotiable
[10:04] {strider} I understand....I was just asking.
[10:04] {strider} I'm out also.
[10:04] {Les} wfc consolidating? b/d .20 trigger?
[10:04] {strider} just looking for clarification.
[10:06] {magoo} hey, just heatrd, happy bday vad
[10:06] {Threei} thank you
[10:06] {bkhmd} VADDDDDDDDD
[10:06] {bkhmd} today is ur birthday?
[10:07] {Threei} yesterday
[10:07] {bkhmd} Happy Birthday Dude what did you get?
[10:07] {Threei} thank you
[10:07] {Les} damn. was going to wish for monumental breakdown today as birthday wish
[10:07] {Moose} he got drunk
[10:07] {Threei} lol
[10:07] {nemo} no...he's never sober, so he can't "get" drunk
[10:07] {Moose} started speaking Scotch
[10:08] {bkhmd} drunk? Vodka? on Birthday? he is russian every day is a birth day
[10:08] {bkhmd} lol
[10:08] {Les} BAC has resistance at .80. getting ready to drop?
[10:09] {Threei} Short Setup: WFC .10 break
[10:09] {Threei} if stays under .20
[10:11] {Threei} Long Setup: RIMM 60 break
[10:11] {Threei} if stays above .90
[10:11] {Threei} JAVA
[10:11] {Threei} Sun Microsystems, Inc. ORCL reportedly denying NYPost article that CEO Ellison was to avoid fighting the EU on its objections to the JAVA acquisition
[10:11] {Threei} *** CEO Ellisson seen as backing down from attempt to fight EU regarding Sun Microsystems - NY Post
[10:11] {Threei} - Article speculates that Oracle could create separate entity within family for database operations in order for deal to be approved by European Commission
[10:12] {dino} vsnt, dmnd
[10:12] {Threei} RIMM invalidated
[10:13] {magoo} lets follow it tho
[10:13] {strider} short WFC .11
[10:16] {magoo} out SEED .43
[10:16] {magoo} ty vad
[10:16] {Threei} nice
[10:17] {dino} gj
[10:17] {ese} L seed .40
[10:17] {dino} vsnt sm l .00
[10:17] {strider} out 1/2
[10:17] {fernp} ty Vad
[10:17] {Threei} WFC 1:1
[10:17] {dino} wideeeee
[10:17] {ese} ouyt .45
[10:17] {Les} I accidently did type 1 scalp on WFC
[10:17] {ese} seed that is
[10:17] {ese} +.05
[10:17] {Les} shorted, then shorted again to close the trade
[10:17] {bkhmd} ty vad
[10:18] {Threei} hmmm
[10:18] {Les} talk about heart leaping into throat
[10:18] {nemo} yep, done that Les
[10:18] {dino} lol les
[10:18] {dino} ditto
[10:18] {Threei} that's not really type 1 les... that's type 3
[10:18] {nemo} sell, buy sell, buy
[10:18] {strider} haha
[10:18] {dino} ttwo to b/e
[10:18] {Les} fortunately I place trades in advance, so error could be fixed in time
[10:19] {dino} once a week i forget an open one les
[10:19] {nemo} wait until you make a mistake and make money anyway
[10:20] {Les} dino, lack sufficient confidence that I only trade one security at a time
[10:20] {ese} L stld .00
[10:20] {nemo} Vad, rimm approaching 60 again
[10:20] {dino} as jesse would say, you book it
[10:20] {bkhmd} done for the day thanks VAD good weekend all
[10:20] {Threei} wtg bkh, take care
[10:20] {Threei} vene vidi vici eh
[10:20] {fernp} bye bk
[10:20] {dino} les, i usually start w/3 or 4 opens far away from price, then gradually cx them
[10:20] {Les} were you profitable today bk?
[10:20] {ese} stop .94
[10:21] {Threei} not sure about RIMM here, nemo
[10:21] {dino} ex. ttwo was original t 6.53
[10:21] {nemo} concentric triangle on fcx previous trend down
[10:21] {nemo} I have that level in as important from a coule of days ago, could be good short if can't break
[10:21] {Moose} out wfc +.11
[10:21] {dino} gj
[10:21] {magoo} seed has more in it it seems
[10:22] {Threei} anyone partials WFC?
[10:22] {Threei} if so, let me know for additional comments
[10:22] {Threei} if not I won't clutter the board
[10:22] {Moose} 1:1 here
[10:23] {dino} ttwo out .54, +.39
[10:24] {Les} fcx approaching previous low
[10:25] {nemo} went through it
[10:25] {strider} out in full wfc
[10:25] {strider} thx vad
[10:25] {nemo} aig .40 level short
[10:26] {Threei} (US) Reportedly House Democrats seeking a higher 'carried interest tax'
[10:26] {nemo} what is that?
[10:26] {Threei} they are going to run out of new names for new taxes
[10:27] {Threei} Bill seen considered in next week session
[10:27] {Threei} ***Reminder: On Nov 24 -Weakness in BX and FIG attributed to rumor govt could impose higher taxes on alternative asset managers
[10:27] {nemo} rimm broke 6o on volume
[10:28] {dino} tax and spend, spend and tax, sheesh
[10:28] {dino} cedc luv
[10:28] {Threei} I don't think I've ever seen anyone that happy to introduce new and new taxes
[10:29] {dino} oh, but it is for the public good , NOT!
[10:29] {Threei} and they wonder where the jobs go
[10:29] {Les} bid $ gain
[10:29] {Les} big
[10:30] {Les} gld
[10:30] {dino} esi sm l .24
[10:30] {dino} stop on esi .89
[10:30] {magoo} hows volume today vad?
[10:30] {dino} no, makle it .94
[10:30] {Threei} very good actually
[10:31] {Threei} Market Internals update at 10:30amET
[10:31] {Threei} - NYSE volume 290M shares, about 5% above its three-month average; advancers lead decliners by 12.4:1.
[10:31] {Threei} - NASDAQ volume 560M shares, about 2% above its three-month average; advancers lead decliners by 5.1:1.
[10:31] {Threei} - VIX index -6.5% to just under 21.00
[10:31] {dino} makele=make
[10:32] {nemo} look at the last 5 minutes on rimm, what a pita
[10:32] {ese} stopped stld .94 -.06 really thought that was setup that was going to work
[10:33] {Threei} ENER UPDATE: Janco Partners Cuts ENER to Sell from Market Perform, price target: $8.75
[10:33] {Threei} scary one
[10:33] {Threei} Long Setup: SEED .60 break
[10:33] {Threei} if stays above .50
[10:33] {Threei} again - scary one
[10:34] {Threei} not for faint hearts and not for slow fingers
[10:34] {dino} how about clod toes
[10:35] {Threei} invalidated anyway
[10:35] {fernp} BAC is working today. I've just scalped 16 break
[10:35] {fernp} three plays on it today :-)
[10:36] {magoo} nice
[10:37] {dino} esi out .75, +.51
[10:37] {strider} wtg dino.
[10:38] {dino} ty
[10:38] {Threei} wtg fern
[10:38] {fernp} ty
[10:40] {strider} ENER b/d?
[10:40] {dino} gj fern
[10:41] {Threei} way too slow strider
[10:41] {strider} k
[10:41] {ese} L gern .86
[10:41] {Threei} who knows, could pick up the pace once loses support
[10:41] {Threei} but there is no enthusiasm in it either way
[10:46] {dino} ugh esi way soon
[10:47] {strider} dino...STE
[10:47] {Threei} hard hit gold
[10:48] {Threei} told you GLD was always short
[10:48] {Threei} excpet when it wasn't
[10:48] {BillyD} watching AIG for breakdown of .32 with stop of .45
[10:48] {ese} gern you did that to me yesterday.......
[10:48] {BillyD} serial disappointer ese
[10:49] {Threei} I am not sure I understad what you are trying to squeeze out of it ese
[10:49] {Threei} GERN is typical news stock
[10:49] {Threei} sometimes it has news and moves on it, usually short lived
[10:49] {ese} 5 or 6 cents.......was just getting ready to sell it and it dumps on me
[10:49] {Threei} in the meantime it's dead
[10:49] {ese} exactly the same senario as yesterday
[10:50] {ese} yes
[10:50] {dino} gdx, gdxj gaps filled
[10:50] {dino} gld too
[10:50] {Threei} Billy, if AIG triggers on a short side should be good for more than scalp
[10:51] {Threei} I don't see much to hold it until 30
[10:51] {BillyD} I like all that room below
[10:51] {BillyD} even though chart was looking more like long setup on .45 break
[10:53] {strider} .40 trigger or .35, AIG?
[10:53] {Threei} .35, IMO
[10:54] {Threei} nearest support is .32 but it shouldn't matter
[10:54] {BillyD} agree w/ .35
[10:54] {fernp} Qs are in a 20 cents range from the open
[10:54] {Threei} often happens after big gap
[10:54] {nemo} scalpin the aylihts out of fcx
[10:56] {Threei} FCX bounce soon
[10:56] {Threei} getting overextended
[10:56] {nemo} 79.65 bounce
[10:57] {fernp} AIG play is .34 short w/stop above .45 , no?
[10:58] {Threei} yup
[10:58] {BillyD} yes, for me
[10:58] {Threei} or above .50
[10:58] {dino} dmnd getting interesting
[11:00] {Threei} 79.65 eh
[11:00] {Threei} it's here
[11:00] {nemo} see
[11:01] {Threei} nice
[11:01] {nemo} not as dumb as I look
[11:02] {Threei} OK... in a little
[11:02] {strider} is that a pivot?
[11:02] {nemo} I know...nobody can be THAT dumb.
[11:02] {Threei} want 80.50
[11:02] {Threei} stop under .60
[11:02] {nemo} if it loses .65 fade it
[11:03] {nemo} no, resistance point from a while ago
[11:03] {nemo} I look at charts and plot support and resistance according to volumes
[11:04] {Threei} AIG invalidated
[11:04] {Les} cat
[11:05] {nemo} take half vad
[11:06] {Threei} good boy FCX
[11:06] {Threei} no, not here
[11:06] {Threei} above 80
[11:06] {nemo} your at 13 ema
[11:06] {Threei} my risk is 10 cents
[11:06] {Threei} need to give it a chance
[11:06] {nemo} I want you to make money and me to be able to take credit
[11:06] {nemo} cool
[11:06] {Threei} half out
[11:07] {Threei} +.35
[11:07] {BillyD} gj guys
[11:08] {Threei} offering second half .35
[11:08] {strider} greedy bastid
[11:08] {Threei} that would be me
[11:08] {Threei} how often do you get such animal as FCX with 10 cents risk?
[11:09] {Threei} direct hit
[11:09] {Threei} +.65
[11:09] {BillyD} very nice
[11:09] {dino} hl l dmnd .45 ave
[11:09] {fernp} gj
[11:09] {dino} stop .13
[11:09] {dino} gj
06[11:09] * nemo slaps Threei around a bit with a large HUGE roll of cash!!!
[11:10] {nemo} hah...rimm tanked when FCX took off
[11:11] {dino} dmnd stop to lod
[11:14] {BillyD} FCX is Gold right?
[11:14] {BillyD} Does it follow the mkt
[11:14] {nemo} copper too
[11:14] {nemo} commodities are backing off because economy "looks" stronger
[11:14] {BillyD} ok, ty
[11:16] {larisa} nemo made call of the month. thing of beauty
[11:16] {Threei} sure did
06[11:16] * Threei is damn proud
[11:16] {nemo} well, ty Lari, but I got caught up in the morning mess. I had 83.65 as critical level for fcx, and forgot.
[11:17] {strider} oh'll have to enlarge the trading room to make room for his head.
[11:17] {Threei} my next project is teaching bears to dance on the gym ball
[11:17] {Les} why bears, why not Nemo?
[11:17] {nemo} I can do that already
[11:17] {Les} CAT returning to support
[11:17] {Threei} I need my next task to be a bit easier Les
[11:18] {nemo} fyvm vad
[11:18] {nemo} it's a variation on awiav, Les
[11:18] {Threei} you can always depend on me :)
[11:19] {dino} cagc drop
[11:19] {dino} you were right es
[11:19] {Threei} but if you don't mind me getting serious for just a few seconds
[11:19] {Les} Vad. CAT .70 short trigger w .90 stoip?
[11:19] {Threei} {serious On}
[11:20] {Les} or mimicking market too much?
[11:20] {Threei} if market haleps, yes
[11:20] {Threei} yes
[11:20] {strider} DRYS drop
[11:20] {Threei} it's unbelievably rewarding to see you guys making this kind of calls
[11:20] {Threei} {serious Off}
[11:21] {strider} AMZN possible dbl bottom
[11:22] {nemo} I have .25 as important support strider
[11:22] {nemo} .32 is pivot s1
[11:22] {magoo} IF mkt bounces its a good play
[11:23] {dino} kmgb
[11:24] {ese} right about what dino?
[11:24] {dino} cagc from this morning
[11:25] {Threei} lol... CNN actually said just now:
[11:25] {strider} long AMZN .48, stop. lod
[11:25] {Threei} Obama is on a rtour, and people arew wondering - when he comes whether he brings jobs with him
[11:25] {dino} no, just xmas presents
[11:25] {ese} that would have been an interesting play.....i don't have your nerve with stocks like that
[11:25] {nemo} oh...have seen parts of the HBO Rock&Roll Hall of Fame concert...EXCELLENT
[11:25] {dino} play small
[11:25] {ese} very thin for me even if i go sm
[11:26] {dino} kmgb interesting
[11:26] {dino} same industry
[11:26] {ese} will check that out
[11:26] {nemo} cat waling the bottom
[11:26] {nemo} walking
[11:27] {ese} well looky that......played out the same way too
[11:27] {Les} damn had to close CAT short. frigging taxi time for me again. daughter pick up.
[11:28] {nemo} get rid of her
[11:28] {nemo} just kidding
[11:29] {dino} why is mon holding, pot, cagc, kmgb, mos dropped
[11:29] {Threei} now Les' call works
[11:29] {strider} stop amzn
[11:29] {Threei} I can retire
[11:30] {dino} s hl .50 mon
[11:30] {ilana} out CAT +.20
[11:30] {ilana} ty Les
[11:30] {strider} wow...
[11:30] {dino} what happened to markets
[11:30] {strider} sure was on wrong side.
[11:31] {ese} i have a sneaking suspicion we are seeing the topping effect
[11:32] {nemo} what clued you in ese
[11:32] {ese} 3 or 4 days up 100 or so pts only to finish in the red
[11:32] {dino} or gap filling
[11:33] {ese} that too
[11:35] {Threei} Short Setup: FCX .95 half lot
[11:35] {Threei} if stays under 80.10
[11:36] {dino} cov mon .25, +.25
[11:37] {Threei} 1:1
[11:38] {dino} too soon mon
[11:38] {Threei} CAT, what a setup that was
[11:38] {nemo} yeah, I took it
[11:38] {strider} out ..good call vad
[11:38] {Threei} out GCX
[11:38] {Threei} FCX
[11:38] {Threei} +.354
[11:38] {Threei} .35
[11:38] {strider} +.30 here
[11:39] {Threei} I just spent some time typing coment on AT, and FCX dropped 5 more cents meanwhile
[11:39] {Threei} on CAT
[11:39] {Threei} btw, in puprose of setup identificastion
[11:40] {Threei} this short was inverted C&H, entered aggressively
[11:40] {Threei} near handle's "bottom"
[11:42] {nemo} so fcx uner .50
[11:42] {Threei} lol
[11:42] {Threei} I thought of comment at the time of shorting:
[11:42] {Threei} should be good for a dollar
[11:42] {nemo} took 60
[11:42] {Threei} and even typed it
[11:42] {nemo} took +.60
[11:42] {Threei} then thought, you know what... this is insane, it's too volatile
[11:43] {nemo} yeah, but matches my mental state
[11:43] {Threei} trading is much much easier today
[11:43] {dino} gj nemooooooo
[11:43] {Threei} trend
[11:43] {Threei} unlike that jerky action in a narrow range
[11:45] {nemo} market is red
[11:46] {BillyD} do we dare hunt for bounce
[11:47] {Threei} sure
[11:47] {Threei} watching CAT for a double bottom
[11:48] {BillyD} my QQQQ chart only stops at times
[11:50] {dino} rino range wow
[11:51] {Threei} CAT, want it around .30
[11:52] {strider} My 9th week in the room.......and my first ever-so-slightly green week.
[11:52] {nemo} look at $
[11:52] {ilana} looks like it listes to you like pussy cat, Vad
[11:52] {dino} gj strider
[11:52] {Les} OH NO what a monster short!! crap crap and doubly crap
[11:53] {Threei} OK Les, now tell us how you really feel
[11:53] {Threei} not fully Ilana
[11:53] {Threei} never got quite that low...
[11:54] {strider} thx dino..
[11:54] {ilana} wild one...
[11:54] {dino} waiting for kmgb sm l .75
[11:54] {Threei} guess who is on what
[11:55] {nemo} Kate Beckinsale
[11:55] {Threei} lemme look her up
[11:55] {ilana} on the radio
[11:55] {Threei} wow... you wish nemo
[11:55] {dino} sarah michelle geller
[11:55] {nemo} Fergie
[11:55] {Threei} and from what I see, radio is nopt really her gig ilana
[11:55] {strider} the large O
[11:56] {dino} vad, you'd like geller, she's the vampire slayer and you are an implaler
[11:56] {Threei} favorite show of my kids dino
[11:56] {nemo} the original movie was funny
[11:56] {dino} funny, that wart on obamas nose seems to be growing
[11:56] {Threei} so yes, I know it well, after watching each episode for 3-5 times
[11:56] {dino} lies perhaps?
[11:59] {KSystems} Hello
[11:59] {nemo} mmmhh C&H on FCX, but do I trust it...
[11:59] {Threei} hey KS!
[11:59] {KSystems} :)
[12:00] {nemo} hey, dino...mon dropped right after you mentioned it
[12:00] {Threei} I am yet to understand the use of speecges "we need to grow jobs"
[12:00] {dino} i shorted it, see above
[12:00] {nemo} missed it...damn
[12:01] {dino} np
[12:01] {nemo} not for you!
[12:01] {fernp} WFC not bouncing with FAS
[12:01] {nemo} lunchtime fern
[12:02] {Threei} good eye fern
[12:03] {Threei} nemo, pont is:
[12:03] {Threei} a lot of thers followed the market
[12:03] {Threei} this one didn't
[12:03] {nemo} yes
[12:03] {dino} ok back to highs?
[12:04] {Threei} I really doubt it dino
[12:04] {fernp} I understand nemo, Vad. ty
[12:04] {dino} me too, neg. close fools the most
[12:05] {dino} remember yesterdays' discussion? they are cheering 10% unemployment as good
[12:06] {Threei} yup
[12:06] {Threei} with obligatory "a lot yet to be done"
[12:06] {Threei} duh
[12:07] {magoo} quite a bounce going on
[12:07] {dino} it feels like dec. propped up, but a cold down winter in jan. feb., imo
[12:09] {dino} pru
[12:09] {dino} hl l .00
[12:11] {strider} gotta go, thanks for a good week...see you on either Monday or Tuesday.
[12:11] {magoo} big move up FXC
[12:11] {magoo} FCX
[12:11] {Threei} take care stroder
[12:11] {Threei} many more to come
[12:11] {fernp} bye strider
[12:11] {dino} cya strider
[12:11] {Threei} ask nemo
[12:11] {strider} indeed, vad.
[12:11] {magoo} bye stripper
[12:12] {strider} you don't want me to do that, mags.
[12:12] {Threei} lol
[12:12] {strider} At least I hope you don't/:)
[12:12] {magoo} prob not :)
[12:12] {dino} lol
[12:12] {Les} ciao striger
[12:13] {Les} strider
[12:13] {strider} bu-bye
[12:13] {Les} so what your thoughts on afternoon vad, following morning action
[12:14] {magoo} vqad, any read FCX?
[12:14] {Threei} no thoughts les, waiting for clarity to return
[12:14] {Threei} mags, rather short than long but no setup
[12:16] {dino} pru stop is .69 fwiw
[12:21] {Les} here's a chart that puts "good employment news" into perspective
[12:22] {Threei} 79% Now Favor Auditing the Fed
[12:23] {Moose} Les, every time I see your nick I am reminded of the old Tombstone saying...
[12:23] {Les} WFC
[12:23] {Moose} "Here lies Lester Moore... four shots from a .44.... No les, no more!
[12:23] {BillyD} lol
[12:24] {Les} where does this expression come from?
[12:24] {Moose} Tombstone out west
[12:24] {Threei} lol
[12:24] {BillyD} Arizona Les
[12:24] {Moose} western USA
[12:24] {Moose} yes .. Arizona
[12:25] {Moose} :)
[12:26] {Les} sorry its local expression or from film?
[12:26] {Les} don't wish to kill joke, I've heard this expression before. trying to nail down origin
[12:27] {Moose} its on a famous tombstone ... cowboy era
[12:27] {Les} really?
[12:27] {Moose} from what i understand
[12:27] {Les} I'd like original tombstone like that
[12:27] {Moose} lol
[12:27] {Moose} wouldn't want the .44 part
[12:28] {dino} kss hl l .75
[12:28] {Threei} Les trying to kill a joke about how les was killed - that would be an ultimate riony
[12:29] {dino} and moose, i think of les every time i'm in walmart, 20 items or less
[12:29] {nemo} that's as funny as an accounting class, dino
[12:29] {Les} see I'm gonna have to change my handle
[12:29] {Threei} and magoo thinks of moose every time he looks at his gun
[12:30] {Moose} lol
[12:30] {Moose} :O
[12:30] {dino} or moosehead beer
[12:31] {magoo} both, carry a beer and from pennsytuckey remember
[12:31] {Threei} let the rationalization begin:
[12:31] {Threei} Sell off in equity futures being partly attributed to selling pressure in futures created by share buying for the BAC related index rebalancing (related SPY DIA QQQQ BAC )
[12:31] {dino} yadda yadda yadda
[12:32] {Threei} (US) President Obama: Latest job report is good news, demonstrating a good trend, but US has a long way to go
[12:32] {Threei} - Speech on the economy on 12/8 will include greater detail on ideas to help jumpstart private sector job growth
[12:32] {Threei} - Committed to lowering the Federal deficit once the current emergency has passed
[12:32] {nemo} gotta' head out for back lter
[12:33] {Threei} GOOG Reportedly plans to stream video financial news on Google Finance site (581.91, -3.83, -0.65%)
[12:33] {Threei} CNBC: what a horrible horrible idea
[12:34] {Les} yeh, where is google gonna gets it material
[12:34] {Les} regular news services have said no to freebies on google all day
[12:35] {BillyD} Vad, any thoughts on FCX crossing 81
[12:36] {Threei} looks attractive
[12:38] {Threei} small shares
[12:38] {Threei} stop under .85
[12:38] {BillyD} ok
[12:38] {fernp} 81 break?
[12:39] {Threei} yes
[12:41] {Threei} won't be a scalp for me if trigers
[12:43] {Les} what is small shares for you Vad?
[12:43] {magoo} what about a pullbk level for entry vad?
[12:43] {Threei} there is a big offer at 81, mags...
[12:44] {Threei} break of it is what I want to sewe for this play
[12:44] {magoo} ok
[12:44] {Threei} Les... I am no Tiger Woods but I value my privacy nonetheless...
[12:44] {BillyD} rofl
[12:45] {Les} that small?
[12:45] {Les} :P
[12:45] {Threei} someone's walking very thin line
[12:45] {Les} sorry
[12:45] {Moose} two shots from a .22
[12:45] {BillyD} les no more
[12:46] {Les} lol
[12:46] {Moose} i assume setup is still valid
[12:46] {Moose} and invalid now
[12:46] {larisa} Tiger Woods Family Christmas Portrait
[12:46] {Threei} lost support...
[12:46] {larisa}
[12:47] {Les} rofl
[12:47] {dino} out pru .25, +.25
[12:47] {fernp} lol
[12:47] {Moose} nice
[12:47] {Threei} I think it's enough that majority of my trades are public... not many traders can say that, very few would tolerate that
[12:47] {BillyD} very funny
[12:47] {Threei} at least let me keep the monetary part to myself
[12:47] {Les} FCX becoming a shrot?
[12:48] {Les} rather large stop
[12:48] {dino} ty
[12:49] {Les} ok, so tell me Vad what is small shares for beginner like myself
[12:49] {ese} well we almost have yer basic double bottom with fitb here......and yer got yer choices of goin long errrrr goin long
[12:49] {Threei} I'd ratherhunt for FCX reestablishing long
[12:49] {dino} les my sm is 300-400
[12:49] {Les} ok so round of 500
[12:49] {Threei} that's easy Les
[12:49] {Threei} decsribed very detailed in MPP
[12:49] {dino} hl=500, fl=1k, size = 2k+
[12:50] {Threei} define your noirmal size using the procedure decribed in it
[12:50] {Threei} coming froma ccount size and max loss assigned to each trade
[12:50] {Threei} then consider half lot as, umm, 1/2 of that
[12:50] {Threei} and small shares as 1/4 - 1/3
[12:50] {Les} ok. paper account is huge but not realistic for future real trading
[12:51] {Threei} that I don't understand at all
[12:51] {Threei} what is te point in paper trading something drastically different from real one?
[12:51] {Threei} read the rules of papertrading
[12:51] {dino} untrusting, kss out .05, +.30
[12:52] {Threei} plus there is a paper trading article on a blog
[12:53] {Les} cause I can't relate to the small steady gains you describe in your book
[12:53] {Les} I should but I cant
[12:53] {Threei} I don't understand
[12:53] {Threei} explain pls
[12:54] {Les} paper account is 1 million. have been trading capital proportionally to this account size
[12:54] {Les} is not realistic for future trading however
[12:55] {Les} am reconfiguring default trade sizes now
[12:55] {Les} thinking like an amateur...
[12:56] {Threei}
[12:58] {ese} L fitb .32
[12:59] {Threei} I thought I moved that article to my blog
[12:59] {Threei} apparently not
[12:59] {Threei} will do
[13:04] {dino} imo les, start w/$50k trading account, base it on that
[13:04] {Threei} nice one ese
[13:06] {ese} tks
[13:07] {magoo} stalking ese, er um, i mean FCX
[13:08] {BillyD} BAC strong
[13:16] {dino} who tripped on the cord
[13:18] {dino} bbox
[13:20] {ese} consider exiting here
[13:20] {ese} yup out .40
[13:20] {ese} +.08
[13:23] {BillyD} MWW nice chart
[13:25] {BillyD} if FCX can tighten and break 80 for short
[13:28] {ese} catch you all monday take good trade helps make the day
[13:28] {fernp} bye ese
[13:28] {dino} wsj; venezuela on verge of banking crisis
[13:28] {dino} cya es, gj
[13:28] {Threei} take care ese, have a good one
[13:29] {Threei} really?
[13:29] {fernp} I hate venezuela
[13:29] {Threei} how about all the oil riches
[13:29] {Threei} confiscated companies
[13:30] {dino} cronies of hugo, set up banks, dubious projects, bank runs starting
[13:30] {dino} and fern, i hate chavez
[13:32] {fernp} well, that's more exact. I also hate chavez.
[13:32] {larisa} I stick to hating stocks :)
[13:33] {Threei} why limit yourself to hating equities if you can hate countires and whole continets
[13:34] {Threei} I for one hate ocean bottoms
[13:34] {magoo} lord vader...any interest FCX?
[13:34] {larisa} i do not have that much hate in me, need to spend it wisely
[13:34] {Threei} mariann Trench, just can't stand it
[13:34] {fernp} I am human, Vad
[13:34] {Threei} no mags
[13:34] {magoo} i hate u
[13:34] {magoo} lol
[13:34] {Threei} lol
[13:34] {fernp} or am i a plant with two eyes... I dont remember
[13:34] {Threei} rofl
[13:35] {Threei} you are a plant// nemo is fish
[13:35] {Threei} moose is mammal
[13:35] {Threei} dawg is wolf
[13:35] {Threei} oh he is not here
[13:36] {fernp} this room is unique!!!
[13:36] {Threei} no kidding
[13:36] {Threei} who else has dino
[13:36] {Threei} very much not extinct
[13:36] {fernp} don't forget Raven
[13:36] {Threei} oh yes
[13:36] {Threei} Big Bird
[13:37] {Moose} lol
[13:38] {Les} apparently I'm dead
[13:38] {Threei} for a few centuries, no less
[13:38] {Threei} or no more
[13:39] {Moose} Есть ли какие-лось в России?
[13:39] {Threei} lol... yes
[13:39] {Moose} :)
[13:41] {Les} damn babelfish sucks for translating
[13:43] {Les} dollar going nuts.
[13:43] {Threei} interestingly enough it doesn't kill market much
[13:46] {Les} wondering if that can change on a moments notice
[13:48] {Les} thanks for paper trade article
[13:48] {Les} trading size my only fault now
[13:48] {Threei} sure
[13:48] {Les} at least I'm not lying to myself about fills
[13:48] {Threei} make sure you reread the part in MPP devoted to how papertrade in right way
[13:48] {Les} k
[13:48] {Threei} so it's real learning tool and not just self-indulgence
[13:52] {Les} but what circumstances would I use market order?
[13:52] {Les} when there is meltdown?
[13:52] {Threei} I use it only in thick stocks
[13:52] {Threei} where there is no serious slippage risk
[13:53] {dino} hardly ever used
[13:56] {Threei} .short fcx .15 if stays under .30
[13:56] {Threei} Short Setup: FCX .15 if stays under .30
[14:00] {Les} jumpy
[14:02] {Moose} cyas later... gotta go
[14:02] {Threei} take care moose, see you monday
[14:02] {Moose} ~
[14:02] {fernp} bye moo
[14:02] {dino} cya moose
[14:04] {Les} bon weekend moose
[14:07] {patience} .
[14:09] {Les} fcx .00 short trigger with fairly tight stop, say .10?
[14:10] {Threei} hmm?
[14:10] {dino} out dmnd .74, +.29 took hours
[14:11] {Les} market and fcx getting close to b/d, or double bottom?
[14:11] {Threei} I've no idea
[14:11] {Threei} you are seeking predictions
[14:11] {Les} no
[14:11] {Threei} I am not in that business
[14:11] {Les} I want to take fcx if market helps
[14:12] {Threei} so look for setup
[14:12] {Threei} why guess?
[14:12] {Les} nice to know you cannot predict either/or
[14:12] {magoo} RMBS
[14:12] {magoo} held well and pop
[14:15] {BillyD} AIG, another one if breaks .60
[14:16] {BillyD} or maybe aggressive .70
[14:17] {BillyD} 29.57 yesterday's low
[14:18] {dino} 2:20 approaching, has been contra indicator lately
[14:22] {Threei} Short Setup: FCX 79 break
[14:22] {Threei} if stays under .15
[14:26] {magoo} bounce time imo
[14:26] {Threei} looks ,ike
[14:26] {nemo} Haroo...back from a liquid lunch
[14:26] {magoo} rmbs moves
[14:27] {Les} you drank smoothies Nemo?
[14:27] {nemo} Long Island Ice Tea's
[14:27] {BillyD} strong stuff
[14:27] {nemo} Yeah, I'd forgotten
[14:28] {dino} good stuff
[14:28] {dino} great on a hot day
[14:29] {nemo} great any day
[14:29] {dino} they have a tea flavored vodka that mises great w/lemonade
[14:29] {dino} mixes
[14:29] {nemo} freudian economic slip
[14:30] {dino} lol
[14:30] {Les} out .40 fcx +.10
[14:30] {nemo} got that, huh?
[14:30] {dino} kmgb
[14:30] {magoo} kgb?
[14:30] {dino} gj les
[14:30] {nemo} missed another nice short in fcx I see
[14:31] {dino} what size?
[14:31] {nemo} what size what?
[14:31] {magoo} i ht it long .10 cent
[14:31] {dino} make sure dimes make sense
[14:31] {Les} +.12. hmmm easier done with only 50 shares.
[14:31] {dino} les on the .10
[14:32] {Les} don't have nerve wracking hundreds in potential losses
[14:32] {dino} uh oh, 50 shares will cost you $ on .10
[14:32] {Les} most of the profit
[14:32] {Les} but I just want the strategy squared away
[14:33] {dino} w/respect, i am confused, how dfo you make money on 50 shares at +.10 to .12?
[14:33] {dino} unrealistic even paper trading
[14:33] {Les} not .10 - .12
[14:33] {Les} out +.12
[14:34] {dino} 6 bucks?
[14:34] {Threei} which is $5?
[14:34] {Les} dunno, have to work out with Vad's books what proportion of 25G that I'll eventually start trading with is acceptable risk
[14:34] {Les} but if I am more comfortable with setups on paper
[14:34] {magoo} i guess its better tan an hour working the drive thru window
[14:34] {Les} lol
[14:35] {dino} commissions will eat 50 shares alive unless you get monster moves
[14:35] {Threei} well, whatever you do - training wheels is training wheels but trading for 5 bucks perofit makes no sense
[14:35] {BillyD} good pt magoo
[14:35] {Les} I will probably take bigger risk with real £
[14:35] {Les} $
[14:35] {magoo} shares doesnbt matter, its levels
[14:35] {Les} levels?
[14:36] {nemo} Les...just decide how much you're willing to lose on a trade, and divide it by the stop, that'll tell you how many shares to trade
[14:36] {magoo} u take break of .50 must be stopped loss .35
[14:36] {magoo} u exit it .90 area
[14:36] {dino} if not sure, try paper trading 200 shares, its only paper. but imo you still need big move. my sm size trades (300-400) i don't even enter unless I see potential of .40 on them
[14:36] {magoo} can be 1 share or 10,000
[14:37] {magoo} im paper ttading
[14:37] {dino} nemo is correct imo. thats what i do. max loss =250, ave, loss 135, etc
[14:37] {magoo} only its us gov't issued paper
[14:37] {Les} sure. Will be a while before I trade for real. am beginning to differentiate between surer setups and riskier situations
[14:37] {dino} toilet paper
[14:37] {nemo} 2 ply or 4 ply mags?
[14:37] {magoo} 4
[14:37] {nemo} hehehehehehe
[14:37] {Les} that will permit me to modify risk in future
[14:38] {magoo} finger kept poking thru 2 ply yulk
[14:38] {BillyD} right Les, why take the FCX at .30 only for +.10 when risk was -}30 stop
[14:38] {nemo} best piece you ever had
[14:38] {dino} riskier=smaller size, need bigger move. vads' type=larger size smaller moves
[14:38] {Les} that is true
[14:39] {Les} actually too much wine now I think. thought I had .15 stop
[14:39] {nemo} at that support/resistance point in fcx
[14:40] {dino} bd is correct les, risk/reward min. 1:1; so your .30 stop must get you .30 in profit, unless market changes, then you change by tightening
[14:40] {Les} so acknowledging that I think I'll quit now. back to the books again this weekend. ciao everyone
[14:40] {Les} sure dino, don't know why I took .10 stop
[14:40] {BillyD} have a good one Les
[14:41] {dino} just trying to help, take care les
[14:41] {Les} yeh no problem
[14:41] {dino} :)
[14:41] {Les} time to stop listening to you guys, listen to bottle now
[14:41] {nemo} dino dcc
[14:41] {BillyD} lol
[14:43] {larisa} people removing dead branches from my trees. you blink - half of the tree is gone. Running in and out like crazy giving instructions. I think they hate me :)
[14:43] {BillyD} now you know how stocks feel :)
[14:43] {magoo} lol
[14:44] {larisa} lol
[14:44] {Threei} shoot them with sling while they are up there
[14:44] {larisa} they are as fast as traders.. vzhik vzhik.. nothing you can do but cry :)
[14:45] {Threei} ok forget sling... rifle
[14:45] {Threei} Long Setup: FCX .40 break
[14:45] {Threei} if stays above .30
[14:45] {magoo} innnnnnnnnn
[14:48] {Threei} no go
[14:48] {magoo} drat
[14:49] {dino} cagc spike
[14:49] {Threei} was good setup
[14:52] {BillyD} Vad, did you see .50 as not enough resistance to matter on FCXresistance
[14:53] {Threei} it pulled back from .80s under .40
[14:53] {Threei} stalled, market started upticking toward resistance
[14:53] {Threei} was perfect setup for bounce
[14:53] {BillyD} mkt turned on us
[14:53] {Threei} yes
[14:54] {Threei} just didn't work, that's all
[14:54] {Threei} there was nothing wrong with the play
[14:54] {BillyD} just clarifying
[14:56] {nemo} aig interesting
[14:56] {BillyD} long or short nemo
[14:56] {BillyD} I tend more to short
[14:56] {nemo} not sure yet. .70 obviously goes down and it breaks .70 will probably go through .60
[14:56] {dino} ahh the dark side
[14:57] {dino} mkt wants up gut says
[14:57] {patience} i'm with you dino
[14:57] {patience} so to speak
[14:57] {Threei} I gave up on distinguishing gut feel from acid reflux
[14:57] {dino} ;)
[14:58] {Threei} (US) Fed's Bullard: Inflation will not become a risk for another two to five years, risk from inflation depends on how quickly the Fed unwinds its balance sheet
[14:58] {Threei} ***Reminder: On 12/3, Bullard said the medium term (2 to 4 years) risk is for inflation due to the Fed's large balance sheet.
[14:58] {dino} rino hl l .45
[14:58] {Threei} US Treasury SEc Geithner: High chance unemployment will be under 10% within a year
[14:58] {Threei} doh
[14:59] {dino} jawboning
[14:59] {Threei} look at this
[14:59] {Threei} - Sees $175B worth of bank repayment of TARP by end of 2010
[14:59] {Threei} - notes specifically that Goldman would not have survived had it not been for Govt support; wrong in assumption they did not need assistance
[15:00] {nemo} interesting how flat markets are with $ up so much
[15:01] {Threei} I find this last comment by him laughable in the xtreme
[15:02] {nemo} yeah, they hold his leash
[15:02] {Threei} no
[15:02] {Threei} he tries to break it
[15:02] {dino} he should not have suvived. him and his regulators failed to regulate. the laws were already on the books
[15:02] {Threei} and start serving other owner
[15:02] {nemo} he's gonna' get bitch=slapped
[15:03] {Threei} this is attempt to continue demonizing wall street in order to distract from the washnington role in the debacle
[15:03] {Threei} and picture themselves as saviours
[15:04] {dino} it all started w/clinton and frank, ease requirments on mortgages
[15:04] {Threei} if any bank could survive at all it was GS
[15:04] {Threei} least exposure to subprime, least leverage of them all
[15:04] {dino} i agree 3i
[15:04] {Threei} mosr reserves
[15:04] {Threei} most powerful trading division
[15:04] {dino} and they were net short going in
[15:04] {Threei} right
[15:05] {nemo} but what might have broken them was the insolvency of the counterparties on the other side of the trade
[15:06] {dino} counter-party perhaps.
[15:06] {Threei} yes, and that's where washington comes in the picture:
[15:06] {nemo} yes
[15:06] {Threei} it was goverment's guarantees
[15:06] {dino} but realistically fnm, fre were the source of the problem
[15:06] {Threei} that made FE/FNM/AIG mechanics possible
[15:06] {dino} barney's "i control them"
[15:06] {Threei} exactly
[15:07] {Threei} so, when this triade started falling apart
[15:07] {dino} and they are at it again
[15:07] {Threei} government simply fulfilled its own obligations
[15:07] {magoo} FCX rude
[15:07] {Threei} that were at the root of the problem
[15:07] {Threei} so logical chain is this:
[15:07] {Threei} if goverment never gave those guarantees,
[15:08] {Threei} FRE/FNM/AIG would not gave theirs,
[15:08] {Threei} banks would not overleverage their bets
[15:08] {Threei} and there wouldn't be any crisis.
[15:08] {Threei} Crisis came - givt found itself called on its guarantees
[15:09] {Threei} so, all this "we saved you" is a one big fat lie
[15:09] {Threei} you killed them first,
[15:09] {dino} and the cycle starts again, imo
[15:09] {Threei} (well, to be fair their were willing participants)
[15:09] {nemo} it's not there yet, but cat might be setting up short
[15:10] {dino} they let too many buy houses w/no skin in the game, imo thats where it all started
[15:10] {Threei} sure
[15:10] {Threei} but that was an otcome
[15:10] {Threei} outcome
[15:10] {Threei} reason was banks' willingness to lend to those who had no skin
[15:10] {nemo} started as social engineering to allow poorer people buy houses, but everyone could qualify
[15:10] {Threei} in the game
[15:11] {Threei} and banks wrre willing because they had those guarantees and felt safe
[15:11] {dino} why not if banks can sell them off
[15:11] {dino} fees baby, fees
[15:11] {Threei} yup
[15:11] {Threei} now they say banks didn't manage their risk
[15:11] {nemo} funny...up here in our area there was a large Dominican presence. Many had been here since the early 90's. They took out the ninja mortgages, and retired back home, leaving the properties
[15:11] {Threei} sure - why would they if you yourelf told them you stand behind insurance
[15:13] {dino} in my area, either vacation homes or people that took home equity above mortgage
[15:19] {nemo} volumes really seem to be drying up
[15:20] {magoo} fcx over the 200
[15:21] {nemo} ohyeah
[15:24] {Threei}
[15:26] {Raven} picture compliments of the Raven !!
[15:27] {dino} lol
[15:27] {nemo} I'd settle for a trade call
[15:27] {Threei} sigh... Raven, it's hopeless
[15:27] {BillyD} that's cool
[15:27] {Raven} humorless group
[15:27] {nemo} Abandon hope all ye who come here...
[15:28] {Raven} Tombstone, Arizona 2004
[15:28] {dino} there be monsters beyond this point
[15:28] {nemo} and Leeuwenhoek's "wee beasties"
[15:34] {dino} rino to .48
[15:34] {dino} siro strong
[15:37] {Threei} trying to get a feel for the last leg into close
[15:37] {Threei} down IMO
[15:37] {Threei} not big but down
[15:38] {dino} 3:40 approaches
[15:38] {nemo} yeah the market feels like it just wants to get off the floor
[15:38] {dino} coin toss says down
[15:38] {nemo} probably...not much though
[15:40] {dino} out rino .50, +.05
[15:41] {dino} out vsnt .87, -.13
[15:42] {dino} done for the week, thx all
[15:42] {nemo} P&Q dino
[15:43] {larisa} bye dino
[15:43] {BillyD} cya dino
[15:43] {Threei} take care dino
[15:43] {dino} :)
[15:53] {BillyD} take care all, have a good wknd
[15:53] {Threei} you too Billy
[15:53] {nemo} cu
[15:59] {Threei} okay guys, thank you all
[16:00] {Threei} have a great relaxing weekend
[16:00] {Threei} see you all Monday
[16:00] {nemo} Great day...have a nice weekend
[16:00] {larisa} bye all
[16:01] {lasertrev} have a good weekend all